The reason some people don't know for sure
if they are going to Heaven when they die
is because they just don't know.

The good news is that you can know for
sure that you are going to Heaven which is
described in the Holy Bible as a beautiful
place with no death, sorrow, sickness or
pain.

God tells us in the Holy Bible how simple
it is to be saved so that we can live
forever with Him in Heaven.

"For if you confess with your mouth Jesus
is Lord and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you
WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:9)

Over 2000 years ago God came from Heaven
to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to
shed His blood and die on a cross to pay
our sin debt in full.

Jesus Christ was born in Israel
supernaturally to a virgin Jewish woman
named Mary and lived a sinless life for
thirty-three years.

At the age of thirty-three Jesus was
scourged and had a crown of thorns pressed
onto His head then Jesus was crucified.

Three days after Jesus died on a cross and
was placed in a grave Jesus rose from the
dead as Jesus said would happen before
Jesus died.

If someone tells you that they are going
to die and in three days come back to life
again and it happens then this person must
be the real deal.

Jesus Christ is the only person that ever
lived a perfect sinless life.

This is why Jesus is able to cover our
sins(misdeeds) with His own blood because
Jesus is sinless.

The Holy Bible says, "In Him(Jesus) we
have redemption through His blood, the
forgiveness of sins..." (Ephesians 1:7)

If you would like God to forgive you of
your past, present and future sins just
ask Jesus Christ to be your Lord and
Saviour.

It doesn't matter how old you are or how
many bad things that you have done in
your life including lying and stealing
all the way up to murder.

Just pray the prayer below with your
mouth and mean it from your heart and
God will hear you and save you.

Dear Jesus Christ, I want to be saved so
that I can have a home in Heaven with You
when I die. I agree with You that I am a
sinner. I believe that You love me and want
to save me. I believe that You bled and
died on the cross to pay the penalty for my
sins and that You rose from the dead.
Please forgive my sins and come into my
heart and be my Lord and Saviour. Thanks
Lord Jesus Christ for forgiving me and
saving me through Your merciful grace.
Amen.

Welcome to the family of God if you just
allowed God to save you. Now you are a real
Christian and you can know for sure that
you will live in Heaven forever when this
life comes to an end.

As a child of God we are to avoid
sin(wrongdoing), but if you do sin the
Holy Bible says, "My dear children, I
write this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anybody does sin, we have one who
speaks to the Father in our defense Jesus
Christ, the Righteous One."

Those of you that have not yet decided to
place your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ
may never get another chance to do so
because you do not know when you will die.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and
the life: no one can come to the
Father(God)(in Heaven), but by me."
(John 14:6)

This means that if you die without
trusting in Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Saviour you will be forever separated from
the love of God in a place called Hell.

The Holy Bible descibes Hell as a place of
eternal torment, suffering, pain and agony
for all those who have rejected Jesus Christ.

The good news is that you can avoid Hell by
allowing Jesus Christ to save you today.
Only then will you have true peace in your
life knowing that no matter what happens you
are on your way to Heaven.


Praise the Lord!
Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ
Ronald L. Grossi

*Show this to your family and friends so
they can know that they have a choice
where they will spend eternity. Thanks!

__________________________________________________ __



Got Questions?
http://www.gotquestions.org/archive.html

Other Languages
http://www.godssimpleplan.org/gsps.html

Free Movie: To Hell and Back
http://www.tbn.org/index.php/8/1.html

Animation
http://www.gieson.com/Library/projec...alk/index.html

The Passion Of The Christ
http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com

Beware Of Cults
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm

About Hell
http://www.equip.org/free/DH198.htm

Is Jesus God?
http://www.powertochange.com/questions/qna2.html

Free Online Bible
http://www.biblegateway.com


__________________________________________________ __

wrote:

The reason some people

think your pitiful, and sadly reflect poorly on otherwise religious
people is this spambot drivel you keep posting.

It is rude, insufferably boorish, impolite, indiscrete, and oh hell...

Your mom sucks bullfrog water for not smacking you over that numbskull
noggin of yours

Peace.... ****head

Mark

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
think your pitiful, and sadly reflect poorly on otherwise religious people
is this spambot drivel you keep posting.
It is rude, insufferably boorish, impolite, indiscrete, and oh hell...
Your mom sucks bullfrog water for not smacking you over that numbskull
noggin of yours
Peace.... ****head

don't you think that's a little over the top regarding an affront about on
the same level as a guy wearing a sandwich board saying 'the end of the
world is nigh'?
What particular part of the message bothers you so badly?
It would seem to me that the guy is pretty easily ignored. You either
already know, or you're already rejected it- not a whole lot new in his
presentation.

Chsa

Chas wrote:

"Mark Goldberg" wrote

think your pitiful, and sadly reflect poorly on otherwise religious people
is this spambot drivel you keep posting.
It is rude, insufferably boorish, impolite, indiscrete, and oh hell...
Your mom sucks bullfrog water for not smacking you over that numbskull
noggin of yours
Peace.... ****head


don't you think that's a little over the top regarding an affront about on
the same level as a guy wearing a sandwich board saying 'the end of the
world is nigh'?
What particular part of the message bothers you so badly?
It would seem to me that the guy is pretty easily ignored. You either
already know, or you're already rejected it- not a whole lot new in his
presentation.

Chsa


Maybe, but the occasional boorish poser, or 'sandwich' guy isn't even
an insult. It's just boorish, and a tad lame.
This guy makes me feel bad for the christian folks who have to have
this guy sully their name, and game with his robotics.
It's just so dammed tawdry to spam post the way this duck does, with
no The naysayers then get to blither on, as if to say, 'see, this is
what being a christian does for you.'

I wish he'd show up and make a case- otherwise he's just another used
car salesman, but worse. He doesn't exist- it's just spam and using
others words.

I just figured that those who dig on religion, faith might show their
disdain just to let the scoffers know that they too think it's
infantile, and worse. Maybe I'm off base here. I dunno.

Mark

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
Maybe, but the occasional boorish poser, or 'sandwich' guy isn't even an
insult. It's just boorish, and a tad lame.
This guy makes me feel bad for the christian folks who have to have this
guy sully their name, and game with his robotics.

Think of him as a guy with long sideburns, funny underwear and a sincere
look on his face. They're as weird as Hassids, or Cruzieros, or the Mormon
guys you see hanging around Temple Square.

It's just so dammed tawdry to spam post the way this duck does, with no
The naysayers then get to blither on, as if to say, 'see, this is what
being a christian does for you.'

I would think that he's very unsophisticated, thinks he just discovered
something and is fulfilling his obligation to his belief.
There are a lot of religions that solicit, others that are exclusionary,
others that are a condition of national origin and they won't let you in at
all.
Nothing offensive about it- just tune them out like you do the Harry
Kirschner people.

I wish he'd show up and make a case- otherwise he's just another used car
salesman, but worse. He doesn't exist- it's just spam and using others
words.

Sure- he considers it like a billboard that says; 'Jesus Saves'.
And he hasn't wasted more than a few dozen electrons to do it, Mark.

I just figured that those who dig on religion, faith might show their
disdain just to let the scoffers know that they too think it's infantile,
and worse. Maybe I'm off base here. I dunno.

It's a particularly Jewish attitude- Jews don't proselytize, so it's not an
social convention they share. Jews are by birth, and distinguish 'piety' by
the rigor of Observance. Christians are by choice, and distinguish piety by
enthusiasm <g

Chas

Chas wrote:

It's a particularly Jewish attitude- Jews don't proselytize,

I'm a Christian and I've got nothing against proselytizing. I'm all in
favor of it, in fact. But this spambotting is the electronic
equivalent of finding a tract stuck under your windshiled wiper.

It's a complete waste of time and effort in that the odds of someone
being swayed by such spam are pretty much nil and it creates much more
ill will and ****ed off people in one posting then a flotilla of spams
will *ever* sway.

Hmmm...

So let me see he

It's an inefficient, ineffective, and irritating intrusion that spreads
more ill will than good will. But on the plus side, it only cost him a
few electrons?

Ummm... yeah...

This *ain't* the way to go about proselytizing and it makes the effort
that much more difficult for those who *do* have a good way.

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

"I can't believe it's not a Badger!" wrote
It's an inefficient, ineffective, and irritating intrusion that spreads
more ill will than good will. But on the plus side, it only cost him a
few electrons?

Compared to the reaction to it?
It's hard to believe that some people are so affronted by, what seems to me
to be, a rather innocuous posting.

Chsa

Chas wrote:
"I can't believe it's not a Badger!" wrote

It's an inefficient, ineffective, and irritating intrusion that spreads
more ill will than good will. But on the plus side, it only cost him a
few electrons?

Compared to the reaction to it?
It's hard to believe that some people are so affronted by, what seems to me
to be, a rather innocuous posting.

My joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon my answer?

Nobody likes threats.

Chas wrote:
"I can't believe it's not a Badger!" wrote

It's an inefficient, ineffective, and irritating intrusion that spreads
more ill will than good will. But on the plus side, it only cost him a
few electrons?


Compared to the reaction to it?
It's hard to believe that some people are so affronted by, what seems to me
to be, a rather innocuous posting.

Chsa



The message is not an affront, at all- in fact - The presentation, with
no personal involvement shows only contempt for the rights of others. It
simply coopts advertising time and space. And it's not 4 times a year-
but 6 times a week.
That's his message. In your face.
It's like a guy who shoves
an old lady out of the way on a bus.... because he's using a cane.

It isn't offensive- the first ten times you see it.

Rudeness is rudeness. The message is not the words, but what he's
actually doing. That makes me sad, for the message which I think he sullies.

mark

"T" wrote
My joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon my answer?

D'ya think?
If you believe in eternity, you have choices to make.
If you don't believe in a possiblity of that, you've already made your
choice.

Nobody likes threats.

It's not a threat unless you don't figure you can measure up.
If you want to be 'saved', you must be figuring there's something to be
saved for- if there's no reason to be saved, one wouldn't worry about being
discarded.
And, if there's work to be done, why retain someone who won't bend their
back to it?

Chas

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
.....The presentation, with no personal involvement shows only contempt for
the rights of others.

Oh please- you're going to see the same billboard a hundred times, same
commercial jingle, same exortation to stop smoking or buy bonds.

It simply coopts advertising time and space.

Nah; infinite supply of electrons- cost you nothing; blocking him is easy.

And it's not 4 times a year- but 6 times a week.
That's his message. In your face.

'In your face'?
What affronts you so badly?

It's like a guy who shoves
an old lady out of the way on a bus.... because he's using a cane.

Spamming a religious message is like shoving an old lady?
You have seriously misprioritized moral standards, Mark.

It isn't offensive- the first ten times you see it.

block him-

Rudeness is rudeness.

Nothing 'rude' about it-
you can choose how much time and attention to give it at any point in your
interaction.

The message is not the words, but what he's actually doing. That makes me
sad, for the message which I think he sullies.

Well, just Passover it.

Chas

Rudeness is rudeness.

Nothing 'rude' about it-
you can choose how much time and attention to give it at any point in
your
interaction.
Chas

Coming into a group to impersonally spam constantly off topic and for
no other reason, ignoring constant requests to stop, is not rude?
How do you get that?
Cordially,
Robert

"rkzenrage" wrote
Coming into a group to impersonally spam constantly off topic and for
no other reason, ignoring constant requests to stop, is not rude?

For a net-nanny, I guess.
You people have spent more time telling him how much of your time he's
wasted than he took to waste the time you're whining about.

How do you get that?

It seems concept specific; anti-christian. I think that's bigoted,
particularly as there are far more provocative posts made all the time.
It's kind of not too much different from Libby's jew rants. The rhetoric
gets inflamed pretty quickly.

Chas

Chas wrote:

"rkzenrage" wrote

Coming into a group to impersonally spam constantly off topic and for
no other reason, ignoring constant requests to stop, is not rude?


It seems concept specific; anti-christian. I think that's bigoted,
particularly as there are far more provocative posts made all the time.
It's kind of not too much different from Libby's jew rants. The rhetoric
gets inflamed pretty quickly.

But you attacked Libby for his attacking you.
That didn't make you anticrazy...

People attacking Grossi, are invited to become anti-christian because
Grossi hides behind the message doing something unchristian.

That is an attack- by Grossi, on Christians.

Mark

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
But you attacked Libby for his attacking you.
That didn't make you anticrazy...

Surely you don't judge proper behaviour by mine.
I didn't take Libby seriously until he contacted me directly, threatened my
family, threatened me with ambush and serious injury, and extended it to my
friend Steve, and then to our teacher.
He lives here.
Whether it's approached with a bit of levity or not, Libby is just the kind
of zipperhead that they catch doing funny **** after a long period of
ranting on the internet. 'Columbine' was here too, ya know?

People attacking Grossi, are invited to become anti-christian because
Grossi hides behind the message doing something unchristian.

Actually, by reading what he chooses to publish, one can tell what his
'denomination' is, and his behaviour is perfectly consistent with those
beliefs. I don't happen to subscribe to an emphasis on proselytizing, but
it's entirely sincere on their part.

That is an attack- by Grossi, on Christians.

Oh poop-
It's the same thing done by the Harry Kirchner people, the Nichiren Shoshu,
the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, astrologers/psychics, pagans and
shamanists.
Jews have always been 'a peculiar people'; henotheistic, set apart in their
Observance, generally born into the practice. 'Proselytizing' is utterly
foreign to their social model, but it's certainly not 'rude' if not
considered by such a rare standard.

Chas

Chas wrote:

"Mark Goldberg" wrote

But you attacked Libby for his attacking you.
That didn't make you anticrazy...


Surely you don't judge proper behaviour by mine.

I consider you a stout fellow... the soul of discretion :^))


I didn't take Libby seriously until he contacted me directly, threatened my
family, threatened me with ambush and serious injury, and extended it to my
friend Steve, and then to our teacher.
He lives here.
Whether it's approached with a bit of levity or not, Libby is just the kind
of zipperhead that they catch doing funny **** after a long period of
ranting on the internet. 'Columbine' was here too, ya know?

I agree with you and your points are well taken. He is a cuckoo clock
but a viciously hateful one. Of course, you can see the problem for
those of us for whom he attacks an entire people; lies, and encourages
the subjugation and murder, ad nauseum.


People attacking Grossi, are invited to become anti-christian because
Grossi hides behind the message doing something unchristian.


Actually, by reading what he chooses to publish, one can tell what his
'denomination' is, and his behaviour is perfectly consistent with those
beliefs. I don't happen to subscribe to an emphasis on proselytizing, but
it's entirely sincere on their part.

I don't follow you. He abuses the privilege of civil discourse- how it
that consistent with his sect?


That is an attack- by Grossi, on Christians.
Oh poop-
It's the same thing done by the Harry Kirchner people, the Nichiren Shoshu,
the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, astrologers/psychics, pagans and
shamanists.

I don't see any of them around here. I don't any of the proselytizing
christians around here. Maybe once in a blue moon, and if I did, I
wouldn't even be offended. Once or twice a year is fine. It is
'proselytizing'... and as such, it is consistent with their modus
operandi- but not out of any bounds.
Grossi is different.

It is not proselytizing he is doing, but hiding behind that concept, it
seems to me. And he's destroying the good name of others who do share
his beliefs but who wouldn't self aggrandizingly perform as Grossi does.

Mark

wrote:


I can't speak for Mark, but I get the feeling this guy is the
electronic equivalent of that 8AM saturday morning door knock.

Honestly, if you're gonna bug me that early on my day off, you better
have DD's and be giving out free head. Otherwise F-O-A-D.

I notice another spam today.
It has nothing to do with his message.

He is a self aggrandizing person; I feel bad for christians who happen
to also believe in proselytizing, but not like this guy, and who
wouldn't dream of invading peoples homes, or computers as this guy has
done.
I don't mind proselytes; it isn't my way, but there's all kind of folks
and I don' get upset with the varieties out there.

Mostly I smile.
Really
and dispatch them gently.

The computer mavens- is there a way to complain to his server, and get
them to annoy him??

Mark

Chas wrote:
"Mark Goldberg" wrote


The message is not the words, but what he's actually doing. That makes me
sad, for the message which I think he sullies.


Well, just Passover it.

Chas



He does plague the landscape

Mark

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
......Of course, you can see the problem for those of us for whom he
attacks an entire people; lies, and encourages the subjugation and murder,
ad nauseum.

It's an interesting dichotomy; he's either a self-hating jew, or an agent
provocateur. He's either a nutcase that stalks people, or the government
making threats.
or both.

I don't follow you. He abuses the privilege of civil discourse- how it
that consistent with his sect?

'civil discourse' isn't a privilege; free practice of religion is a right.
There are a number of missionary/proselyte denominations- some of them get
very forward about it, considering it a virtue and expression of piety.
One is welcome to tune it out in the same manner as
commercial/political/activist speech. The Internet is open to the free
exchange of ideas, and if you don't like the idea being promulgated, think
of it as your 'dues' to do the same.

It's the same thing done by the Harry Kirchner people, the Nichiren
Shoshu, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, astrologers/psychics,
pagans and shamanists.
I don't see any of them around here. I don't any of the proselytizing
christians around here. Maybe once in a blue moon, and if I did, I
wouldn't even be offended. Once or twice a year is fine. It is
'proselytizing'... and as such, it is consistent with their modus
operandi- but not out of any bounds.

Do you live in an ethnic/gated/exclusive enclave of some sort?
I get a lot of Mormons (strong in this area), JW's, Agnus Dei is strong, the
coupla amerindian religions (Plains/Navajo mostly), very large Pagan
community, Liberation Theology (mostly Catholics), Hare Krishna Temple is
just down the way, the Mosque in another direction, the KaiKan is out
shakkabukuing their ass' off, the Tibetan Buddhists show up at everything.

It is not proselytizing he is doing, but hiding behind that concept, it
seems to me. And he's destroying the good name of others who do share his
beliefs but who wouldn't self aggrandizingly perform as Grossi does.

He's not soliciting donations, or selling you anything- and it's kinda
obvious that he's not Episcopalian, that's true.
He's just another street-corner preacher. I imagine he considers it a
'mission'.
The other alternative is that he's anti-Christian and looking to provoke
animus.
I don't even see his stuff unless someone comments on it.

Chas

wrote
'In your face'?
What affronts you so badly?
The sheer and utter arrogance of it all? Like somehow he / his
religion has "the" answer that he - oh so graciously - wants to share
with us?

You don't need an answer unless you have a question.
You don't have to buy into the idea of 'eternal life'. Even if you do hold
the concept, you can either do something about it or not.

Honestly, if you're gonna bug me that early on my day off, you better
have DD's and be giving out free head. Otherwise F-O-A-D.

Mount a 'No Solicitors' notice on your door.

Chas

"rkzenrage" wrote
Coming into a group to impersonally spam constantly off topic and for
no other reason, ignoring constant requests to stop, is not rude?

no more than some guy standing on a soap box- or advertising his message in
some other way.
If you don't like the First Amendment, tough- the public forum is just that;
public.
And, there are far more egregious pests on the Internet, so I suspect that
much of the outcry against this one is motivated by another agenda. It's
much like the demonization of the jews, or the mormons-

Chas

Chas wrote:

"Mark Goldberg" wrote


I don't follow you. He abuses the privilege of civil discourse- how it
that consistent with his sect?


'civil discourse' isn't a privilege; free practice of religion is a right.

But civil discourse really does apply. I've met tons of proselytes, and
it involves them discussing their beliefs. It's very much themselves on
the line. That's the part I'd describe as 'civil'.
It's not out of context with their proselyte's belief; and I accept that
as part of the belief... put yourself on line.
Here we have someone spamming, which has no corollary self commitment to
engage or commit to the words... it's as if they turn on a loudspeaker
outside your door that demands you wake up and shut your window, or turn
off the TV because it's been coopted by advertising.
That is not the context of proselytizing- it is the context of spamming,
selfishness, etc, and the christian message has no connection to the
action, since he leaves a recorded message that has no personal
involvement, except he he has to ignore it, or turn it off, is forced to
do so.
There are a number of missionary/proselyte denominations- some of them get
very forward about it, considering it a virtue and expression of piety.
One is welcome to tune it out in the same manner as
commercial/political/activist speech. The Internet is open to the free
exchange of ideas, and if you don't like the idea being promulgated, think
of it as your 'dues' to do the same.
And it it was ten times more prevalent you'd then scream and realize
that it was essentially removing your right to listen to ideas, because
there'd be nothing but antispamming actions in your surfing, which is
neither pleasant, nor hospitable, and nothing of christian charity.

It's the same thing done by the Harry Kirchner people, the Nichiren
Shoshu, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, astrologers/psychics,
pagans and shamanists.

I don't see any of them around here. I don't any of the proselytizing
christians around here. Maybe once in a blue moon, and if I did, I
wouldn't even be offended. Once or twice a year is fine. It is
'proselytizing'... and as such, it is consistent with their modus
operandi- but not out of any bounds.


Do you live in an ethnic/gated/exclusive enclave of some sort?

Here Chas, here on this newsgroup.

It is not proselytizing he is doing, but hiding behind that concept, it
seems to me. And he's destroying the good name of others who do share his
beliefs but who wouldn't self aggrandizingly perform as Grossi does.


He's not soliciting donations, or selling you anything
He's just another street-corner preacher. I imagine he considers it a
'mission'.
The other alternative is that he's anti-Christian and looking to provoke
animus.

And I, who hate conspiracy nods, have to admit... this would be one way
to get people to genuinely resent Christian religion, which is why I
think it's absurd to connect his spamming, his uncharitable sharing, his
lack of any personal fighting for those beliefs, mano a mano, which is
what makes the proselyte put his commitment on the line, with this
blowhards 'spamming,' as excusable under that rubric of genuine
proselytizing- which is entirely different that what he is engaging here.

Hence my concern for Christians who's beliefs and efforts are besmirched
by his actions.

Mark

spewed:
[...]

Please do not reply.

"Mark Goldberg" wrote
That is not the context of proselytizing- it is the context of spamming,
selfishness, etc, and the christian message has no connection to the
action, since he leaves a recorded message that has no personal
involvement, except he he has to ignore it, or turn it off, is forced to
do so.

That's an interesting perspective- but it's not shared by everyone. He
doesn't have to comport himself to your standards, only to his own.
Think of it as a Tibetan prayer wheel- what is the act of piety; the turning
of the wheel, or the scraping of the wheel on the prayer written on the
paper?

And it it was ten times more prevalent you'd then scream and realize that
it was essentially removing your right to listen to ideas, because there'd
be nothing but antispamming actions in your surfing, which is neither
pleasant, nor hospitable, and nothing of christian charity.

but it's not- and we're not near short of electrons, Mark.
This guy hasn't intruded upon you at all- if you don't block him,
recognizing his name is enough to ignore him. He simply doesn't confront
anything; it's like hearing a commercial jingle; meaningless noise.

Do you live in an ethnic/gated/exclusive enclave of some sort?
Here Chas, here on this newsgroup.

There's a constant stream of anti-christian invective here- far less
positive than negative or, more often, abusive.
there's always room for the contrary view.

And I, who hate conspiracy nods, have to admit... this would be one way to
get people to genuinely resent Christian religion, which is why I think
it's absurd to connect his spamming, his uncharitable sharing, his lack of
any personal fighting for those beliefs, mano a mano, which is what makes
the proselyte put his commitment on the line, with this blowhards
'spamming,' as excusable under that rubric of genuine proselytizing- which
is entirely different that what he is engaging here.

Oh poop- your agenda against 'spamming' can't be that obsessive, can it?
And why would you want to make 'proscelitzing' an adversarial event- except
for the fact that adversarial debate is a fixture of judaism, and
proscelytizing isn't?

Hence my concern for Christians who's beliefs and efforts are besmirched
by his actions.

Nah; he's the least of our embarrassments.

Chas