Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11   Report Post  
Old May 5th 10, 10:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Oct 2009
Posts: 905
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

I wrote:
"Jef Gorbach" wrote:
So will google groups still access this forum
once it relocates??


That is not really possible, well at least not
without significant investment by Google.


I should clarify that I interpreted Jef's question to be: will Google
Groups continue to track contributions made to the new forum?

Two related questions a (a) whether GG (or Giganews) will continue to
permit posting to its own set of microsoft.public newsgroups, creating an
independent forum in effect; and (b) even if not, whether GG will keep its
huge archive of old postings to microsoft.public newsgroups for searching
and reading, and for how long?

I suspect the answers are "no" and "probably not".

With respect to #a, the newsgroup system (Usenet) is composed of an
unstructured set of computers that lack any central administration or
authority. So theoretically, GG could continue to maintain an active set of
microsoft.public newsgroups, allowing users to access them exclusively
through the GG web interface. Giganews could do essentially the same thing,
and GG would never know the difference. (I don't know if Giganews has a
user interface of its own.)

However, note that Microsoft is a trademarked name; and the content of the
microsoft.public NGs originate on Microsoft servers. So I expect that
Microsoft will require that all well-known mirrors of the microsoft.public
NGs stop providing active acccess -- that is, accepting postings.

With respect to #b, the same legal issue applies to merely retaining an
archive of old microsoft.public NGs. Even though the archives themselves
are the property of their owners (e.g. GG), the NG names still contain a
trademarked name. Whether or not Microsoft will stand on that principle, or
GG renames those NGs in its archive, remains to be seen. But in any case, I
doubt that GG would permit read and search access on those NGs, but not
write access (posting).

Of course, I don't know. We might have to just wait and see.


----- original message -----

"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
"Jef Gorbach" wrote:
So will google groups still access this forum once
it relocates??


That is not really possible, well at least not without significant
investment by Google.

Google relies on a particular network protocol (NNTP) to access the
Microsoft forums archived on the MSnews server. Actually, Google relies
on Giganews, which in turn relies on the MSnews server.

Hypothetically, Microsoft might still mirror new forum activity on their
MSnews server. That is how the current "Discussion Groups" forum works.

But my understanding of their explanation is that they will not. They
write:

"Microsoft has a long history of establishing newsgroups that channel
users and issues into the newsgroup (NNTP) space where information is
shared and problems can be addressed by the community. [....] Using
forums as the online support strategy will reduce the number of redundant
resources and centralize content, making community contributions more
broadly available and impactful. Beginning in June 2010, Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups and migrating users to Microsoft forums".

It seems clear that they are contrasting "newsgroup" access with "forum"
access, and they will be limiting access to the "forum" only through their
interface.

Theoretically, Google could design a program that "reads" the Microsoft
web interface, sorts things out, and archives inquires and responses in
the form that Google is accustomed to. After all, parsing HTML is
Google's core business.

However, I doubt that would happen. It would require that Google treat
the Microsoft "newsgroups" differently from the many thousands of other
newsgroups that Google archives.

Moreover, Google Groups is not the only other way to access Microsoft
newsgroups today. Even if GG implements a solution, users of the other
alternatives will be affected adversely.

To put all this in a positive light, I suspect that Microsoft's purpose is
to shield its forums from spam. That would be a good thing, if Microsoft
weren't so inept at supporting reliable forums.

Of course, maybe Microsoft will change. ;-)



  #12   Report Post  
Old May 5th 10, 11:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,768
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.

What? Who's casting aspersions?

Not sure if you are calling me a liar...


What? Where are you getting all this negative crap?

All I said was I didn't read the link you provided and here's a link that
I'm aware of to the new Excel forums.

You seem to fly off the handle quite easily and often for reasons that I
don't understand.

So, to eliminate any further misunderstanding of any comments I may make I
will no longer interact with you.

I will never again reply to any of your posts and I will not acknowledge any
of your replies to my posts.

Good grief!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
"T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx


Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.


So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.


Not sure if you are calling me a liar, or you think I am incapable of
copy-and-pasting, or you simply cannot read. I quoted what that link
mentions. I wrote:

In the Q&A the
"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"



The new Excel forums are located at:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx


Yes, that is another way to get the same new Excel forums, apparently.

But the two top-level web sites are very different, at least in
appearance. I cannot explain to you why Microsoft has two different ways
to go to the same place. But that does not make you right and me wrong.

It is not the first time that Microsoft has maintained two different ways
to access the same forums. Jerry Lewis made me aware of two ways to
access (some of) the "Discussion Groups":
www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us, which I have always used,
and http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx, which Jerry was
using recently. But in fact, the web site I used has a more complete list
of Excel "Discussion Groups" than the web site that Jerry used.

Caveat emptor.


The UI is completely different but it's still
a web based forum!


There is nothing inherently wrong with a web interface. Google Groups is
a web interface, and I find it reasonably adequate.

I was commenting on Microsoft's historical failure to maintain a reliable
interface, web or otherwise. (Not to say that GG is perfect.) Also,
Microsoft's historical poor support of the interfaces that they provide.
Even with the new Excel forums, I do not see any way to report problems to
Microsoft. (But that might be my oversight. I just looked for the
obvious "contact us" link on one web page.)

I also raised concerns (along with compliments) about how that moderator
process might work. This is based on two decades of experience with
moderated NGs. Perhaps MVP Ron Coderre can offer some insight.
Apparently he is the moderator (or one of them) of some of the new Excel
forums.

Lastly, my chief concern is that there will no longer be an alternative
if/when posting problems arise with the new Excel forum. And I will no
longer be able to troubleshoot and explain those problems, like deleted
postings. You have personally benefitted from that just recently.

Oh well, it's a done deal. I am not trying to complain. I am merely
trying to set expectations.


----- original message -----

"T. Valko" wrote in message
...
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still
a web based forum!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
wrote:
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin
progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups
to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum
platform.

Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface that
they have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least reliable
and least feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I am aware of.

Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft Newsgroup
website http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx.
In the Q&A the

"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"

The only potentially good thing to come out of this....

"Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different?
[....]
Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the forums
will be."

But the operative word is "potentially".

First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing
"forums". Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem
reports. In fact, they do not even provide an effective way to report
problems with "forums".

Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or useless
(just a pass-thru).

But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that
postings will incur delays.

Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this large.
Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone. Well, perhaps
Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators.

Oh well....


----- original message -----

wrote in message
...
Date 5/4/2010
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively
closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich conversations in
the rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision is in response to
worldwide market trends and evolving customer needs.

Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort,
consolidate community venues and make it easier for active contributors
to retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy community
environment with less spam and make answers easier to find by customers
and search engines. Additionally, forums offer a better user and
off-topic management platform that will improve customer satisfaction
by facilitating discussions in a clean space.

We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important to
the community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling out
tools and resources to minimize disruption to the community
discussions.

We are working diligently on providing additional resources and
information in local languages later this week. In the meantime,
please refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx concerning
this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be made available in
additional languages in the next few days.







  #13   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 12:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Oct 2009
Posts: 905
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

"T. Valko" wrote:
I will never again reply to any of your posts and I
will not acknowledge any of your replies to my posts.



Talk about overreaction!


Not sure if you are calling me a liar...


What? Where are you getting all this negative crap?


You wrote: "I have no idea if that link mentions the location".

You wrote that in response to my comment which quotes exactly what that link
mentions. So how can you have "no idea"?

Ergo, your comment seems to dismiss or question the correction of my
statement.

I did suspect that you meant to write: "I have not looked at the link
myself". But who am I to put words into your mouth?

And even so, there is no reason for you not to take my word for it, since I
provided a direct quote.

(If I had not directly quoted from the link, it would have been reasonable
for you not to take my word for it.)


All I said was I didn't read the link you provided and
here's a link that I'm aware of to the new Excel forums.


And if you had expressed yourself exactly that way, I would have had no
issue with it.


----- original message -----

"T. Valko" wrote in message
...
Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.


What? Who's casting aspersions?

Not sure if you are calling me a liar...


What? Where are you getting all this negative crap?

All I said was I didn't read the link you provided and here's a link that
I'm aware of to the new Excel forums.

You seem to fly off the handle quite easily and often for reasons that I
don't understand.

So, to eliminate any further misunderstanding of any comments I may make I
will no longer interact with you.

I will never again reply to any of your posts and I will not acknowledge
any of your replies to my posts.

Good grief!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
"T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx


Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.


So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.


Not sure if you are calling me a liar, or you think I am incapable of
copy-and-pasting, or you simply cannot read. I quoted what that link
mentions. I wrote:

In the Q&A the
"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"



The new Excel forums are located at:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx


Yes, that is another way to get the same new Excel forums, apparently.

But the two top-level web sites are very different, at least in
appearance. I cannot explain to you why Microsoft has two different ways
to go to the same place. But that does not make you right and me wrong.

It is not the first time that Microsoft has maintained two different ways
to access the same forums. Jerry Lewis made me aware of two ways to
access (some of) the "Discussion Groups":
www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us, which I have always used,
and http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx, which Jerry
was using recently. But in fact, the web site I used has a more complete
list of Excel "Discussion Groups" than the web site that Jerry used.

Caveat emptor.


The UI is completely different but it's still
a web based forum!


There is nothing inherently wrong with a web interface. Google Groups is
a web interface, and I find it reasonably adequate.

I was commenting on Microsoft's historical failure to maintain a reliable
interface, web or otherwise. (Not to say that GG is perfect.) Also,
Microsoft's historical poor support of the interfaces that they provide.
Even with the new Excel forums, I do not see any way to report problems
to Microsoft. (But that might be my oversight. I just looked for the
obvious "contact us" link on one web page.)

I also raised concerns (along with compliments) about how that moderator
process might work. This is based on two decades of experience with
moderated NGs. Perhaps MVP Ron Coderre can offer some insight.
Apparently he is the moderator (or one of them) of some of the new Excel
forums.

Lastly, my chief concern is that there will no longer be an alternative
if/when posting problems arise with the new Excel forum. And I will no
longer be able to troubleshoot and explain those problems, like deleted
postings. You have personally benefitted from that just recently.

Oh well, it's a done deal. I am not trying to complain. I am merely
trying to set expectations.


----- original message -----

"T. Valko" wrote in message
...
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's
still a web based forum!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
wrote:
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin
progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups
to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum
platform.

Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface that
they have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least reliable
and least feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I am aware of.

Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft Newsgroup
website http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx.
In the Q&A the

"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"

The only potentially good thing to come out of this....

"Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different?
[....]
Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the forums
will be."

But the operative word is "potentially".

First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing
"forums". Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem
reports. In fact, they do not even provide an effective way to report
problems with "forums".

Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or useless
(just a pass-thru).

But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that
postings will incur delays.

Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this large.
Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone. Well, perhaps
Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators.

Oh well....


----- original message -----

wrote in message
...
Date 5/4/2010
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively
closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich conversations
in the rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision is in response
to worldwide market trends and evolving customer needs.

Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort,
consolidate community venues and make it easier for active
contributors to retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy
community environment with less spam and make answers easier to find
by customers and search engines. Additionally, forums offer a better
user and off-topic management platform that will improve customer
satisfaction by facilitating discussions in a clean space.

We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important to
the community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling out
tools and resources to minimize disruption to the community
discussions.

We are working diligently on providing additional resources and
information in local languages later this week. In the meantime,
please refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
concerning this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be made
available in additional languages in the next few days.








  #14   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 12:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 169
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

In article , "T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still a
web based forum!


This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is good
with nothing (well, OK, very little ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of.


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good idea.




  #15   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 02:13 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,768
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Bruce Sinclair" wrote
in message ...
In article , "T. Valko"
wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still
a
web based forum!


This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is
good
with nothing (well, OK, very little ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only
willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out
there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of.


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS
news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good
idea.








  #16   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 03:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,549
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities


I agree with you and Bruce.
However...
the new Answers site could be a winner if it used the Ribbon. <g
--
Jim Cone
Portland, Oregon USA



"T. Valko"
wrote in message ...
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.
--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


  #17   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 03:55 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions,microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.programming
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2009
Posts: 461
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

What Biff said was, here's another link to the forums. I didn't sense
any negative tone to his post. I don't know why he reacted so strongly,
but I don't know the history of your interactions.

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/


On 5/5/2010 7:15 PM, Joe User wrote:
"T. Valko" wrote:
I will never again reply to any of your posts and I
will not acknowledge any of your replies to my posts.



Talk about overreaction!


Not sure if you are calling me a liar...


What? Where are you getting all this negative crap?


You wrote: "I have no idea if that link mentions the location".

You wrote that in response to my comment which quotes exactly what that
link mentions. So how can you have "no idea"?

Ergo, your comment seems to dismiss or question the correction of my
statement.

I did suspect that you meant to write: "I have not looked at the link
myself". But who am I to put words into your mouth?

And even so, there is no reason for you not to take my word for it,
since I provided a direct quote.

(If I had not directly quoted from the link, it would have been
reasonable for you not to take my word for it.)


All I said was I didn't read the link you provided and
here's a link that I'm aware of to the new Excel forums.


And if you had expressed yourself exactly that way, I would have had no
issue with it.


----- original message -----

"T. Valko" wrote in message
...
Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.


What? Who's casting aspersions?

Not sure if you are calling me a liar...


What? Where are you getting all this negative crap?

All I said was I didn't read the link you provided and here's a link
that I'm aware of to the new Excel forums.

You seem to fly off the handle quite easily and often for reasons that
I don't understand.

So, to eliminate any further misunderstanding of any comments I may
make I will no longer interact with you.

I will never again reply to any of your posts and I will not
acknowledge any of your replies to my posts.

Good grief!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
"T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

Maybe you should be before you cast aspersions on someone else.


So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

Not sure if you are calling me a liar, or you think I am incapable of
copy-and-pasting, or you simply cannot read. I quoted what that link
mentions. I wrote:

In the Q&A the
"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"



The new Excel forums are located at:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

Yes, that is another way to get the same new Excel forums, apparently.

But the two top-level web sites are very different, at least in
appearance. I cannot explain to you why Microsoft has two different
ways to go to the same place. But that does not make you right and me
wrong.

It is not the first time that Microsoft has maintained two different
ways to access the same forums. Jerry Lewis made me aware of two ways
to access (some of) the "Discussion Groups":
www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us, which I have always
used, and http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx,
which Jerry was using recently. But in fact, the web site I used has
a more complete list of Excel "Discussion Groups" than the web site
that Jerry used.

Caveat emptor.


The UI is completely different but it's still
a web based forum!

There is nothing inherently wrong with a web interface. Google Groups
is a web interface, and I find it reasonably adequate.

I was commenting on Microsoft's historical failure to maintain a
reliable interface, web or otherwise. (Not to say that GG is
perfect.) Also, Microsoft's historical poor support of the interfaces
that they provide. Even with the new Excel forums, I do not see any
way to report problems to Microsoft. (But that might be my oversight.
I just looked for the obvious "contact us" link on one web page.)

I also raised concerns (along with compliments) about how that
moderator process might work. This is based on two decades of
experience with moderated NGs. Perhaps MVP Ron Coderre can offer some
insight. Apparently he is the moderator (or one of them) of some of
the new Excel forums.

Lastly, my chief concern is that there will no longer be an
alternative if/when posting problems arise with the new Excel forum.
And I will no longer be able to troubleshoot and explain those
problems, like deleted postings. You have personally benefitted from
that just recently.

Oh well, it's a done deal. I am not trying to complain. I am merely
trying to set expectations.


----- original message -----

"T. Valko" wrote in message
...
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's
still a web based forum!

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
wrote:
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin
progressively closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups
to enrich conversations in the rapidly-growing forum
platform.

Translation: Microsoft will force people to use the web interface
that they have maintained so poorly for years and that is the least
reliable and least feature-rich interface for these "forums" that I
am aware of.

Confirmation of that fact comes from the official Microsoft
Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx. In
the Q&A the

"Q: Where can I access these forums from?
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/forums/default.mspx"

The only potentially good thing to come out of this....

"Q: What should newsgroup users prepare for that will be different?
[....]
Additionally, Microsoft newsgroups are not moderated, while the
forums will be."

But the operative word is "potentially".

First, Microsoft has demonstrated complete ineptitude in managing
"forums". Their tools do not work. MS does not respond to problem
reports. In fact, they do not even provide an effective way to
report problems with "forums".

Second, moderating a group is either highly labor-intensive or
useless (just a pass-thru).

But if the moderation is real (and effective), that will mean that
postings will incur delays.

Moreover, I have never heard of moderation done on a scale this
large. Consider the traffic in the m.p.excel newsgroups alone.
Well, perhaps Microsoft will depend on MVPs to be moderators.

Oh well....


----- original message -----

wrote in message
...
Date 5/4/2010
Starting in early summer 2010, Microsoft will begin progressively
closing down the Microsoft public newsgroups to enrich
conversations in the rapidly-growing forum platform. This decision
is in response to worldwide market trends and evolving customer
needs.

Microsoft continues to invest in forums to reduce customer effort,
consolidate community venues and make it easier for active
contributors to retain their influence. Forums provide a healthy
community environment with less spam and make answers easier to
find by customers and search engines. Additionally, forums offer a
better user and off-topic management platform that will improve
customer satisfaction by facilitating discussions in a clean space.

We understand that some newsgroups are still active, and important
to the community. In the coming days and weeks, we will be rolling
out tools and resources to minimize disruption to the community
discussions.

We are working diligently on providing additional resources and
information in local languages later this week. In the meantime,
please refer to the official Microsoft Newsgroup website
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx
concerning this issue. The Microsoft Newsgroup website will be
made available in additional languages in the next few days.








  #18   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 03:57 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2009
Posts: 461
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities

There are two problems with NNTP, from Microsoft's viewpoint:

1. It's old and unshiny.
2. It was not invented in Redmond.

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/


On 5/5/2010 7:26 PM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
In , "T. wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still a
web based forum!


This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is good
with nothing (well, OK, very little ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of.


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards<puts up hand that stick with MS news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good idea.




  #19   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 08:35 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Dec 2009
Posts: 834
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities


"Jon Peltier" wrote in message
...
There are two problems with NNTP, from Microsoft's viewpoint:

1. It's old and unshiny.
2. It was not invented in Redmond.


3. They are not able to control it - now they decide what is THE right
answer
4. It doesn't have the highly desirable points (now what can they possibly
be for)


  #20   Report Post  
Old May 6th 10, 08:35 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Dec 2009
Posts: 834
Default Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Online Communities


"Jim Cone" wrote in message
...

I agree with you and Bruce.
However...
the new Answers site could be a winner if it used the Ribbon. <g


By gosh, I think he's got it!




Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
microsoft communities interface FSt1 Excel Discussion (Misc queries) 2 March 19th 09 09:37 AM
How do I get the microsoft office online taskpane excel to work? CINDY New Users to Excel 1 September 1st 06 01:06 PM
How do I download readable templates from microsoft online echopig Excel Discussion (Misc queries) 1 December 14th 05 08:22 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 ExcelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Microsoft Excel"

 

Copyright © 2017