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Old June 27th 06, 04:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
larry godfrey
 
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 2003

I have complex charts, with many data points. The redraw time on my machine
in Excel 2003 (all updates for office and wxp installed) is 2-3 sec, which I
consider extremely slow, so I was looking forward to an new chart engine with
better speed from 2007, but am flabergasted at how slow 2007 is.
Try this...create a line chart, 12 columns of 5000 points each. Put it
imbeded in a worksheet. Tab to another worksheet, tab back, time the redraw.
On my machine (3 ghz, 2gig ram), redraw time is 2-3 sec for all the lines to
show up on the graph. In 2007, it takes a full minute! the graph looks
better (lines are more clear), but wow, this redraw time is crazy! I created
the graph in 2003, pulled it into 2007 and saved it as 2007.xlsm file type.

I also have a graph with ~ 50 5k point lines, of which I hide most of them
at any one time. This chart redraw in 2007 can go on for 5 minutes!
(compared to 10-15 sec in 2003)

Am I unaware of some setting to speed things up, or did MS realy make charts
10X slower to redraw?
Best regards
Larry

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Old June 27th 06, 07:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
Mike Middleton
 
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 2003

Larry -

Keep in mind that you are not using Excel 2007. Unless you have been able to
time-transport yourself into the future, you are actually using Excel 2007
Beta 2. And you should not expect that a Beta version is optimized for
speed.

- Mike
www.mikemiddleton.com

"larry godfrey" wrote in message
...
I have complex charts, with many data points. The redraw time on my
machine
in Excel 2003 (all updates for office and wxp installed) is 2-3 sec, which
I
consider extremely slow, so I was looking forward to an new chart engine
with
better speed from 2007, but am flabergasted at how slow 2007 is.
Try this...create a line chart, 12 columns of 5000 points each. Put it
imbeded in a worksheet. Tab to another worksheet, tab back, time the
redraw.
On my machine (3 ghz, 2gig ram), redraw time is 2-3 sec for all the lines
to
show up on the graph. In 2007, it takes a full minute! the graph looks
better (lines are more clear), but wow, this redraw time is crazy! I
created
the graph in 2003, pulled it into 2007 and saved it as 2007.xlsm file
type.

I also have a graph with ~ 50 5k point lines, of which I hide most of them
at any one time. This chart redraw in 2007 can go on for 5 minutes!
(compared to 10-15 sec in 2003)

Am I unaware of some setting to speed things up, or did MS realy make
charts
10X slower to redraw?
Best regards
Larry



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Old June 27th 06, 08:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
larry godfrey
 
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

Sorry for being too casual about the beta part...
However, I would not expect optimization for speed to handle a 10X slow down.
I have run some additional tests using VBA for sheet calculations. If I
calculate a singele row in a complex sheet inside vba, it takes 15! times
longer in the 2007 beta vs 2003.

The only time I see 2007 beta any better in speed compared to 2003 is in a
workbook where 2003 dependency limit has been exceeded so 2003 has to do a
full recalc while 2007 beta only does a "changed" recalc.

Has anyone else done some speed tests?

Best Regards
Larry


"Mike Middleton" wrote:

Larry -

Keep in mind that you are not using Excel 2007. Unless you have been able to
time-transport yourself into the future, you are actually using Excel 2007
Beta 2. And you should not expect that a Beta version is optimized for
speed.

- Mike
www.mikemiddleton.com

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Old June 30th 06, 05:45 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
Jon Peltier
 
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

It's not just optimization. If you've used the various charting and graphics
modules much in 2007 Beta 2, you will have noticed that a lot of things are
still a bit off. It's a combination of correcting the glitches, optimizing
the internal processes, and who knows what else, that will improve the
performance of the program.

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier, Microsoft Excel MVP
Tutorials and Custom Solutions
http://PeltierTech.com
_______


"larry godfrey" wrote in message
...
Sorry for being too casual about the beta part...
However, I would not expect optimization for speed to handle a 10X slow
down.
I have run some additional tests using VBA for sheet calculations. If I
calculate a singele row in a complex sheet inside vba, it takes 15! times
longer in the 2007 beta vs 2003.

The only time I see 2007 beta any better in speed compared to 2003 is in a
workbook where 2003 dependency limit has been exceeded so 2003 has to do a
full recalc while 2007 beta only does a "changed" recalc.

Has anyone else done some speed tests?

Best Regards
Larry


"Mike Middleton" wrote:

Larry -

Keep in mind that you are not using Excel 2007. Unless you have been able
to
time-transport yourself into the future, you are actually using Excel
2007
Beta 2. And you should not expect that a Beta version is optimized for
speed.

- Mike
www.mikemiddleton.com



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Old July 6th 06, 02:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 3
Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

Scott Rubble of microsoft was able to recreate my slow graphing with beta 2,
but has encouraging comments regarding optimization process: "With our recent
performance improvements in charting, it renders much faster than in Beta 2.
The upcoming release of Beta 2 TR should be a good indication of the actual
performance you will see at RTM."
So I am in "wait and see" mode! )
Heeeeres hoping!
Larry


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Old January 4th 07, 08:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

I have downloaded Office 2007 (Home & Student edition) today, and am appalled
at the very slow performance. It is so slow, it's unuseable. For example, if
I try to delete a graph (to help speed Excel up), it delays by at least 20
secs, and a menu appears for about 1/2 second and then disappears again.

Useless.

David
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Old January 4th 07, 08:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20



"David Com" wrote:

I have downloaded Office 2007 (Home & Student edition) today, and am appalled at the very slow performance. It is so slow, it's unuseable.

David


Thanks for confirming my findings, David. Even the new release, though
faster, is unuseable for me too. Just make a graph with 50k data points and
you will see what we mean.

I had high hopes because of the optimization done for multiprocessors for
speed enhancement, and I could use the larger number of available columns
too, but once you add a large graph it slows to a crawl, even when just
chnanging from tab with the graph to one without. My graphs take MINUTES to
get their view generated in 2007, and only seconds in 2003.

I have always thought of the graphics package for Excel to be a poorly
executed add on, almost an after thought, awkward, limited, and slow.
(Immagine having hide non-visible data points option in the tools/options,
not in any menu list directly related to graphing for instance!). There are
lots of non-excel scientific graphing packages that have much more
flexibility and are much faster, but no good add-ins that I know of that use
there own code rather than just using the Excel commands in fancy macros. I
need to combine the flexibility of excel worksheets and vba with the graphing
power of these scientific graphing packages.

If any one knows of an add-in, even if I have to pay for it, that by-passes
Excel graphics I would appreciate knowing about it.

Happy New Year
Larry
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Old January 4th 07, 10:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

Larry,

To get Excel to have 1 million rows rather than 65K, they will have had to
rewrite everything. My impression is that they have made a terrible job of
it. Graphing is very important.

I guess there is a remote possibility that the final release improves
things. Microsoft will get a tremendous amount of bad press if it remains as
it is now. I certainly wouldn't consider buying Office 2007 if it stays in
it's current state.

What is the point of 1 millions rows if Excel can't cope with 25K rows in a
single axis Graph? (which is what I have, and it crawls)

David
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Old January 4th 07, 10:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

David

RTM charting is a 'little' better, but very much still to be improved (I am
sure in v.next). Quoting the 1000000 rows (You didn't mention 16k columns)
is something I believe Excel users, for it is they who demanded them, will
rue the day they did. It's a limitation of current machine power (Generally
available) and the tasks Excel is put to that make me very sceptical.

Anything approaching the old limit of 65k, should IMHO, be in a database.

Charting *will* get improved but is disappointing in this version.

1,000,000 rows with VLOOKUPs, SUMIFs, etc, I say...

Be careful what you ask for.... (Not you specifically, just a sentiment)

--
HTH
Nick Hodge
Microsoft MVP - Excel
Southampton, England
DTHIS
www.nickhodge.co.uk


"David Com" wrote in message
news
Larry,

To get Excel to have 1 million rows rather than 65K, they will have had to
rewrite everything. My impression is that they have made a terrible job of
it. Graphing is very important.

I guess there is a remote possibility that the final release improves
things. Microsoft will get a tremendous amount of bad press if it remains
as
it is now. I certainly wouldn't consider buying Office 2007 if it stays in
it's current state.

What is the point of 1 millions rows if Excel can't cope with 25K rows in
a
single axis Graph? (which is what I have, and it crawls)

David


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Old January 5th 07, 06:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.charting
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jan 2007
Posts: 2
Default Pls confirm 2007 chart redraw is up to 10 times slower than 20

Nick,

I am only a hobby user, so I am sure there will be far more demanding users
than me. I use Excel to research ideas for my hobby, and charts help me
visualise what is going on.

As an example, I have 27K rows, and about 30 columns of raw data. A macro
then creates another 30 rows. I may then sum various columns. I then create a
new column with:

average (d2:d101)

and fill down the 27K rows, and display this single column as a chart.
Excel2007 is VERY slow. Excel 2000 does it fine, and much faster. Obviously
the average calculation could be optimised, but I want a tool that is easy to
use, without having to think too hard (and possibly make mistakes).

I believe I am using about 2 million cells, so if we assume 20bytes/cell,
that gives 40MB. That doesn't sound excessive.

If I open a chart (as above), it's slow to open in 2007. I can't right click
the chart (or if I can the delay is about 20 secs). Sometimes (I don't know
what I have done) I get a menu flash on the screen for about 1/2 sec, and
it's gone again. It's impossible to use! I would describe it as "Not fit for
purpose".

I often like to delete sheets and move other sheets in to replace them.
Excel 2007 won't allow this. It allows the command but then complains that
the source (or is it destination) had too many rows or columns. WHY!

I accept your comment about databases. However Excel is good for a quick
experiment & chart. A database requires too much planning.

I have done a bit of reading in the last day, and have discovered that Excel
2000 is only supposed to be able to have about 80MB of cells. My PC has about
700MB, but Excel 2000 appeared to be using it all. Is this correct? (I just
kept filling cells with 1, and then looked at the Task Manager). Excel 2007
seemed to have similar limits (just more rows, and less columns). Both seemed
to allow about 33 milion cells.

Am I correct in assuming it is max row X max column which determines memory
use?

There are some scenarios where Excel 2000 does really struggle, and I had
hoped 2007 would solve all my problems. I was hoping that with 1 million
rows/16K columns, it would need much better internal algorithms. From what
you are saying, it sounds like that wasn't possible. Is my best option to
simply buy more RAM and/or a faster PC? My experiments suggest Excel 2003
won't help me.

For my hobby, it's disappointing, but I'm sure I can find workarounds.
However, serious professional users may be rather more upset.

Most users have no idea how things like vlookup work, so they won't
understand when the performance is poor. However, I think Microsoft could
have helped themselves by adding an option which uses a sorted list, but
requires an exact match. It would be a simply tweak to the existing
algorithm, but allow users to use sorted lists more easily (I always want
exact matches. I know you can do it using two sorted vlookups, but it should
not be necessary!)

David


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