It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

John, have a look here http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm

--
Paul B
Always backup your data before trying something new
Using Excel 2000 & 97
Please post any response to the newsgroups so others can benefit from it
** remove news from my email address to reply by email **
"John T Ingato" wrote in message
...
It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

John,

There are no "rules", per se.
You can post attachments, use whatever language you want, etc.
The problem lies in whether or not you really want an answer to your post.
If you DO have a legitimate question and DO want an answer, then there
are "guidelines" that will help you get the answer that you need.
Take a look he
http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm
and he
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/posting.htm

And welcome to the Excel newsgroup community.
We're here to help because we enjoy doing so.

John


"John T Ingato" wrote in message
...
It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

There is another rule that I have just made up.

If you post here you MUST realize that MS NEVER
send security updates via NGs or e-mail so NEVER
install one that you get in an e-mail.

Since I started posting here about three weeks ago
I have been getting 250MBytes of them a day to the
e-mail addy that I use only for NG posting.

As I do not have filtered mail I get them all.

I know a few sys admins who say that some of their
users are having the same prob and all have reported
recent posts to an MS news group.

Chrissy.



"Paul B" wrote in message ...
John, have a look here http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm

--
Paul B
Always backup your data before trying something new
Using Excel 2000 & 97
Please post any response to the newsgroups so others can benefit from it
** remove news from my email address to reply by email **
"John T Ingato" wrote in message
...
It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

Hi John,
The official part you can read here, you can see it is basically a hands-off
support of newsgroups on Microsoft's part.
Rules of Conduct
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...t/default.mspx

The rest are basically guidelines set up by contributors in the Excel
newsgroups. You will see some differences between our conventions
in the Excel groups and other groups. Such as these groups are not monitored, you
post directly to the newsgroups, and conversations continue in the
newsgroups, these are basically evolvements over time and the way that
these newsgroups have always operated (as far as I know). There is
no way that one person they were called SysOps can possibly handle
/ monitor / control 3,000 postings in 3 groups per day, let alone read every posting.
Disadvantage being that the same questions get asked over and over in
the newsgroup; whereas, a SysOp might have deflected questions
to a FAQ or other documents presumed know to most regulars.
So it certainly helps if people do some research themselves before
posting and let people know what they know and what they need help with. .

Hints And Tips For New Posters In The Excel Newsgroups
http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm
(site index: http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm )

Posting to Newsgroups
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/posting.htm

Since you are new to newsgroups, here are some more links:

Excel Newsgroups & Searching Newsgroups
Information on Google web and Google Groups search,
the Microsoft Knowledgebase (MS KB).
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/xlnews.htm

Some Frequently Asked Questions: While we don't have anything
official several people have made attempts at a FAQ some short,
some long. Some of them being:

Excel FAQs list of FAQ by John Walkenbach.
http://www.j-walk.com/ss/excel/faqs/index.htm
(site index: http://www.j-walk.com )

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Microsoft Excel
Collected by Harald Staff, Microsoft Excel MVP, on Debra Dalgleish's site
http://www.contextures.com/xlfaqIndex.html
(site index: http://www.contextures.com )

Some unusual sources for information:

A reference to definitely download and maintain on your computer
Excel Function Dictionary -- http://homepage.ntlworld.com/noneley « by Peter Noneley,
workbook with 157+ sheets, each with an explanation and example of an Excel function

There are lots of link pages on the web but for Excel the two main ones
that are not specialized are as follows, and complete enough that I certainly
don't need one of my own.

Links -- John Raffensperger [spreadsheetstyle],
Describes and rates Excel web sites/pages, you can ask to be
listed but if your site is underconstruction or strictly commercial
it will be probably be rated low.
http://www.mang.canterbury.ac.nz/peo...scom/links.htm
(see: http://www.mang.canterbury.ac.nz/peo...com/10tips.htm )

Links -- John Walkenbach, Anybody can have an Excel link there
just ask, these are much bigger lists
http://www.j-walk.com/ss/excel/links
(tips: http://j-walk.com/ss/excel/usertips/index.htm )

There are several Microsoft Excel MVP's that have add-ins on Stephen
Bullens mvp page. Some have their own web pages but most don't.

The Excel MVP page
http://www.bmsltd.co.uk/MVP/Default.htm
(site index: http://www.bmsltd.co.uk/Excel/Default.htm )

Some Links Excel and VBA Tutorials
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel....htm#tutorials
Shortcuts -- find much easier to work with on a single web page then in HELP.
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/shortx2k.htm

Suggest looking at the sites of those listed above, and the sites of those
who provide replies in the newsgroups. While the above links can help
get you started, they are not really the best content for each site so I went
back and listed in parens something to help you with orientation within each site.
(Mine are below my signature, my favorites are proper.htm and formula.htm) .
---
HTH,
David McRitchie, Microsoft MVP - Excel [site changed Nov. 2001]
My Excel Pages: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/excel.htm
Search Page: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/search.htm
Site Excel Index: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/xlindex.htm

"John T Ingato" wrote in message ...
It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

The problem with all the suggestions about how to post and what
research you should do first is that by the time someone comes
here for the first time, they are probably frustrated and need the
answer faster than they could get it by searching. Look at most
of the questions - they are rather simple and the answer is usually
obvious to an experienced user.

The other reason I think that it is ok to use this resource as a first
call is that when one posts here asking that first VERY SIMPLE
question one often reads a few more posts and learns some more
about Excel - something that the person may never need or something
that the person may find the most useful bit of info they ever got - they
just did not know that it was even a possibility.

If someone is having probs with something simple chances are that
the help system with Excel is incomprehensible to that person.

I do not mind helping someone like that and I think that many here
are the same. Other forums I participate in are not so "nice" and
one would get flamed if one asked a question that was asked in the
previous six months.

Chrissy.


"David McRitchie" wrote in message ...
Hi John,
The official part you can read here, you can see it is basically a hands-off
support of newsgroups on Microsoft's part.
Rules of Conduct
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...t/default.mspx

The rest are basically guidelines set up by contributors in the Excel
newsgroups. You will see some differences between our conventions
in the Excel groups and other groups. Such as these groups are not monitored, you
post directly to the newsgroups, and conversations continue in the
newsgroups, these are basically evolvements over time and the way that
these newsgroups have always operated (as far as I know). There is
no way that one person they were called SysOps can possibly handle
/ monitor / control 3,000 postings in 3 groups per day, let alone read every posting.
Disadvantage being that the same questions get asked over and over in
the newsgroup; whereas, a SysOp might have deflected questions
to a FAQ or other documents presumed know to most regulars.
So it certainly helps if people do some research themselves before
posting and let people know what they know and what they need help with. .

Hints And Tips For New Posters In The Excel Newsgroups
http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm
(site index: http://www.cpearson.com/excel/newposte.htm )

Posting to Newsgroups
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/posting.htm

Since you are new to newsgroups, here are some more links:

Excel Newsgroups & Searching Newsgroups
Information on Google web and Google Groups search,
the Microsoft Knowledgebase (MS KB).
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/xlnews.htm

Some Frequently Asked Questions: While we don't have anything
official several people have made attempts at a FAQ some short,
some long. Some of them being:

Excel FAQs list of FAQ by John Walkenbach.
http://www.j-walk.com/ss/excel/faqs/index.htm
(site index: http://www.j-walk.com )

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Microsoft Excel
Collected by Harald Staff, Microsoft Excel MVP, on Debra Dalgleish's site
http://www.contextures.com/xlfaqIndex.html
(site index: http://www.contextures.com )

Some unusual sources for information:

A reference to definitely download and maintain on your computer
Excel Function Dictionary -- http://homepage.ntlworld.com/noneley « by Peter Noneley,
workbook with 157+ sheets, each with an explanation and example of an Excel function

There are lots of link pages on the web but for Excel the two main ones
that are not specialized are as follows, and complete enough that I certainly
don't need one of my own.

Links -- John Raffensperger [spreadsheetstyle],
Describes and rates Excel web sites/pages, you can ask to be
listed but if your site is underconstruction or strictly commercial
it will be probably be rated low.
http://www.mang.canterbury.ac.nz/peo...scom/links.htm
(see: http://www.mang.canterbury.ac.nz/peo...com/10tips.htm )

Links -- John Walkenbach, Anybody can have an Excel link there
just ask, these are much bigger lists
http://www.j-walk.com/ss/excel/links
(tips: http://j-walk.com/ss/excel/usertips/index.htm )

There are several Microsoft Excel MVP's that have add-ins on Stephen
Bullens mvp page. Some have their own web pages but most don't.

The Excel MVP page
http://www.bmsltd.co.uk/MVP/Default.htm
(site index: http://www.bmsltd.co.uk/Excel/Default.htm )

Some Links Excel and VBA Tutorials
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel....htm#tutorials
Shortcuts -- find much easier to work with on a single web page then in HELP.
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/shortx2k.htm

Suggest looking at the sites of those listed above, and the sites of those
who provide replies in the newsgroups. While the above links can help
get you started, they are not really the best content for each site so I went
back and listed in parens something to help you with orientation within each site.
(Mine are below my signature, my favorites are proper.htm and formula.htm) .
---
HTH,
David McRitchie, Microsoft MVP - Excel [site changed Nov. 2001]
My Excel Pages: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/excel.htm
Search Page: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/search.htm
Site Excel Index: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/excel/xlindex.htm

"John T Ingato" wrote in message ...
It will never happen again.
I have now learned two rules to this newsgroup.

Plain text only
No attachments

If there are any other rules please advise.

I am new this newsgroup thing.

Hi Chrissy

Mailwasher http://www.mailwasher.net/ is really helpful. I couldn't live without it these
days. Unfortunately.

--
HTH. Best wishes Harald
Followup to newsgroup only please.

"Chrissy" wrote in message
...

Since I started posting here about three weeks ago
I have been getting 250MBytes of them a day to the
e-mail addy that I use only for NG posting.

As I do not have filtered mail I get them all.

Harald Staff wrote
Hi Chrissy

Mailwasher http://www.mailwasher.net/ is really helpful. I couldn't live without it these
days. Unfortunately.

But it does not address the issue - it only makes it someone else's issue.

Apparently there are 31 billion e-mails sent a day and 40% are SPAM. Others are.
like what I have been getting, viruses. The number of SPAM e-mails sent a year
is apparently doubling.

Having that never reach your mailbox only means you ignore the problem. The problem
needs to be addressed at the source.

Chrissy.

BTW - MailWasher is produced by an NZ company.

--
HTH. Best wishes Harald
Followup to newsgroup only please.

"Chrissy" wrote in message
...

Since I started posting here about three weeks ago
I have been getting 250MBytes of them a day to the
e-mail addy that I use only for NG posting.

As I do not have filtered mail I get them all.

A high percentage of postings can be answered by searching Google
with the keywords provided by the posters or by accessing the Help
provided by Excel using these keywords. What research was done first?

I personally have not found many questions that are asked in this
forum that haven't been answered before.

A person who searched and made an honest attempt to deal with his/her
particular issue should provide the major points of difficulty which
were encountered.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them.

As in life, so in this forum.

Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with all the suggestions about how to post and what
research you should do first is that by the time someone comes
here for the first time, they are probably frustrated and need the
answer faster than they could get it by searching. Look at most
of the questions - they are rather simple and the answer is usually
obvious to an experienced user.

The other reason I think that it is ok to use this resource as a first
call is that when one posts here asking that first VERY SIMPLE
question one often reads a few more posts and learns some more
about Excel - something that the person may never need or something
that the person may find the most useful bit of info they ever got - they
just did not know that it was even a possibility.

If someone is having probs with something simple chances are that
the help system with Excel is incomprehensible to that person.

I do not mind helping someone like that and I think that many here
are the same. Other forums I participate in are not so "nice" and
one would get flamed if one asked a question that was asked in the
previous six months.

Chrissy.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them

SO true

wrote in message
...
A high percentage of postings can be answered by searching Google
with the keywords provided by the posters or by accessing the Help
provided by Excel using these keywords. What research was done first?

I personally have not found many questions that are asked in this
forum that haven't been answered before.

A person who searched and made an honest attempt to deal with his/her
particular issue should provide the major points of difficulty which
were encountered.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them.

As in life, so in this forum.

Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------

The problem with all the suggestions about how to post and what
research you should do first is that by the time someone comes
here for the first time, they are probably frustrated and need the
answer faster than they could get it by searching. Look at most
of the questions - they are rather simple and the answer is usually
obvious to an experienced user.

The other reason I think that it is ok to use this resource as a first
call is that when one posts here asking that first VERY SIMPLE
question one often reads a few more posts and learns some more
about Excel - something that the person may never need or something
that the person may find the most useful bit of info they ever got - they
just did not know that it was even a possibility.

If someone is having probs with something simple chances are that
the help system with Excel is incomprehensible to that person.

I do not mind helping someone like that and I think that many here
are the same. Other forums I participate in are not so "nice" and
one would get flamed if one asked a question that was asked in the
previous six months.

Chrissy.

wrote
A high percentage of postings can be answered by searching Google
with the keywords provided by the posters or by accessing the Help
provided by Excel using these keywords. What research was done first?

I personally have not found many questions that are asked in this
forum that haven't been answered before.

A person who searched and made an honest attempt to deal with his/her
particular issue should provide the major points of difficulty which
were encountered.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them.

As in life, so in this forum.

I see it differently - why should Joe Blogs spent two hours trying to find the
answer on his own to something that a thousand people here can answer in
10 seconds?

If Joe is one of these people who, as you put it, "does his homework" first
then he probably has done that for a long time and has done things in his
Excel spreadsheet that are less than technically sound. If he had of come
here in the first place and asked BEFORE doing his homework for that first
problem he had then he would probably have got a technically sound solution
which may have even given him some insight into how things should be done
AND he would have wasted less time.

Panko claims that 86% of spreadsheets contain errors if they have more than
100 formula in them or link to other spreadsheets. This figure is consistent
with most research into the area and is, in my view, quite shocking. If more
people were able to ask for help first then I believe that this figure could be
reduced.

The only people I get frustrated with are the ones who ask the SAME question
five different ways before they get time to get an answer or post to different
groups with the same question. I get a little frustrated with people who ask 10
questions which are all short and very specific about how to do a formula which
does one small thing when they really should have given an outline of their problem
and come up with a better way to approach the problem.

Chrissy.

Yo... its been along time since I have written anything in these
groups, but I thought I would just add a couple of pence worth. (And
probably what I am going to say has been said before..but I've just
been too lazy to search through the groups to check!)

Well in the past I have done it myself, had a problem, tried to sort
it out for 10 minutes, then fired off a mail to the group. Then,
whilst waiting for any answer, I have trawled the old messages and
bingo found a previous mail that answered my query.

So now I have learnt to 'look-before-I-leech'. I get an answer faster,
and probably pick up a few tips along the way.

However, it would be useful if there was a better way of searching the
newsgroups. I think what I would want is an area similar to the
'Directory' area of Google, that offers categorised information rather
than the 'Web' area that just dumps it on your screen.

I dont know how this would be done, manually would be out of the
question, but maybe some sort of automated indexing thingy, (technical
stuff is not my forte).

Anyway, that my bit said.

Peter Noneley
Cardiff
Wales (Dark bleak night)
Wales
UK

























"Chrissy" wrote in message ...
wrote
A high percentage of postings can be answered by searching Google
with the keywords provided by the posters or by accessing the Help
provided by Excel using these keywords. What research was done first?

I personally have not found many questions that are asked in this
forum that haven't been answered before.

A person who searched and made an honest attempt to deal with his/her
particular issue should provide the major points of difficulty which
were encountered.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them.

As in life, so in this forum.

I see it differently - why should Joe Blogs spent two hours trying to find the
answer on his own to something that a thousand people here can answer in
10 seconds?

If Joe is one of these people who, as you put it, "does his homework" first
then he probably has done that for a long time and has done things in his
Excel spreadsheet that are less than technically sound. If he had of come
here in the first place and asked BEFORE doing his homework for that first
problem he had then he would probably have got a technically sound solution
which may have even given him some insight into how things should be done
AND he would have wasted less time.

Panko claims that 86% of spreadsheets contain errors if they have more than
100 formula in them or link to other spreadsheets. This figure is consistent
with most research into the area and is, in my view, quite shocking. If more
people were able to ask for help first then I believe that this figure could be
reduced.

The only people I get frustrated with are the ones who ask the SAME question
five different ways before they get time to get an answer or post to different
groups with the same question. I get a little frustrated with people who ask 10
questions which are all short and very specific about how to do a formula which
does one small thing when they really should have given an outline of their problem
and come up with a better way to approach the problem.

Chrissy.

You can search before you leech, as you put it, because you have
some knowledge of how to do that - many people don't and why
should be restrict their learning to only doing things the "right way".
They have to start somewhere.

I agree with you about having an easier way of searching. If someone
is new to NGs and Excel and computers then how are they meant to
know how to search for an answer to a question when they are not
even sure what they are trying to ask. Look at the number of posts
to this group - a programming one - which are not programming
questions.

Chrissy.

Peter Noneley wrote
Yo... its been along time since I have written anything in these
groups, but I thought I would just add a couple of pence worth. (And
probably what I am going to say has been said before..but I've just
been too lazy to search through the groups to check!)

Well in the past I have done it myself, had a problem, tried to sort
it out for 10 minutes, then fired off a mail to the group. Then,
whilst waiting for any answer, I have trawled the old messages and
bingo found a previous mail that answered my query.

So now I have learnt to 'look-before-I-leech'. I get an answer faster,
and probably pick up a few tips along the way.

However, it would be useful if there was a better way of searching the
newsgroups. I think what I would want is an area similar to the
'Directory' area of Google, that offers categorised information rather
than the 'Web' area that just dumps it on your screen.

I dont know how this would be done, manually would be out of the
question, but maybe some sort of automated indexing thingy, (technical
stuff is not my forte).

Anyway, that my bit said.

Peter Noneley
Cardiff
Wales (Dark bleak night)
Wales
UK

























"Chrissy" wrote in message ...
wrote
A high percentage of postings can be answered by searching Google
with the keywords provided by the posters or by accessing the Help
provided by Excel using these keywords. What research was done first?

I personally have not found many questions that are asked in this
forum that haven't been answered before.

A person who searched and made an honest attempt to deal with his/her
particular issue should provide the major points of difficulty which
were encountered.

You get a flavor for those have done some homework and those who are
just looking for others to do their work for them.

As in life, so in this forum.

I see it differently - why should Joe Blogs spent two hours trying to find the
answer on his own to something that a thousand people here can answer in
10 seconds?

If Joe is one of these people who, as you put it, "does his homework" first
then he probably has done that for a long time and has done things in his
Excel spreadsheet that are less than technically sound. If he had of come
here in the first place and asked BEFORE doing his homework for that first
problem he had then he would probably have got a technically sound solution
which may have even given him some insight into how things should be done
AND he would have wasted less time.

Panko claims that 86% of spreadsheets contain errors if they have more than
100 formula in them or link to other spreadsheets. This figure is consistent
with most research into the area and is, in my view, quite shocking. If more
people were able to ask for help first then I believe that this figure could be
reduced.

The only people I get frustrated with are the ones who ask the SAME question
five different ways before they get time to get an answer or post to different
groups with the same question. I get a little frustrated with people who ask 10
questions which are all short and very specific about how to do a formula which
does one small thing when they really should have given an outline of their problem
and come up with a better way to approach the problem.

Chrissy.