In article , "T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still a
web based forum!

This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is good
with nothing (well, OK, very little :) ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of. :)


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good idea.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP


"Bruce Sinclair" wrote
in message ...
In article , "T. Valko"
wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still
a
web based forum!

This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is
good
with nothing (well, OK, very little :) ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only
willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out
there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of. :)


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS
news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good
idea.

I agree with you and Bruce.
However...
the new Answers site could be a winner if it used the Ribbon. <g
--
Jim Cone
Portland, Oregon USA



"T. Valko"
wrote in message ...
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.
--
Biff
Microsoft Excel MVP

"Jim Cone" wrote in message
...

I agree with you and Bruce.
However...
the new Answers site could be a winner if it used the Ribbon. <g

By gosh, I think he's got it!

In article , "Jim Cone" wrote:

I agree with you and Bruce.
However...
the new Answers site could be a winner if it used the Ribbon. <g

Aaarrrgghhh ! (I'm sure that was the response you were looking for :) ).

I worked out a few months ago why I hate the whole ribbon thing idea (it's
at the top and takes up valuable space where my stuff could be), so I asked
how to move it to the side of the window. Seemed like an easy thing ... but
no. Apparently, not only are there only 3 colour "schemes" (another pet hate
:)) ... but the ribon is fixed ! Inconceivable ! :)

In article , "T. Valko" wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

... is it possible that this is an attempt by MS to kill off a 'text only'
application that doesn't fit with their apparent 'everything looks better in
html' approach ? An interesting possibility if so - and still wrong. :)

On 5/9/2010 7:16 PM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
In , "T. wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

.. is it possible that this is an attempt by MS to kill off a 'text only'
application that doesn't fit with their apparent 'everything looks better in
html' approach ? An interesting possibility if so - and still wrong. :)


Everything looks better with ads?

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/

In article , Jon Peltier wrote:

On 5/9/2010 7:16 PM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
In , "T.
wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

.. is it possible that this is an attempt by MS to kill off a 'text only'
application that doesn't fit with their apparent 'everything looks better in
html' approach ? An interesting possibility if so - and still wrong. :)

Everything looks better with ads?

Ah. Perhaps my vision is faulty ? :)

Everything looks better when we control it!

--

HTH

Bob

"Jon Peltier" wrote in message
...

On 5/9/2010 7:16 PM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
In , "T.
wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The best feature of NNTP ngs from my perspective is that it's very easy
to
watch a thread for possible follow-ups.

I also like the speed and ease of access.

.. is it possible that this is an attempt by MS to kill off a 'text only'
application that doesn't fit with their apparent 'everything looks better
in
html' approach ? An interesting possibility if so - and still wrong. :)


Everything looks better with ads?

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/

All your post are belong to us.

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/


On 5/10/2010 4:01 AM, Bob Phillips wrote:
Everything looks better when we control it!

In article , Jon Peltier wrote:
All your post are belong to us.

Ah, now, which organisation had exactly that policy (everything that goes
through our networks we own the rights to forever without paying anything)
for everything sent through its network in any way a year or so back ? It
might have been telecom (a major NZ communications company) or them and a
partner of some sort. Might even have been a MS partner. I can't recall
exactly, but when the terms and conditions of the new "service" were
translated into English (from IT and lawyer speak) I do recall the uproar.
:)



- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/


On 5/10/2010 4:01 AM, Bob Phillips wrote:
Everything looks better when we control it!

There are two problems with NNTP, from Microsoft's viewpoint:

1. It's old and unshiny.
2. It was not invented in Redmond.

- Jon
-------
Jon Peltier
Peltier Technical Services, Inc.
http://peltiertech.com/


On 5/5/2010 7:26 PM, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
In , "T. wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still a
web based forum!

This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is good
with nothing (well, OK, very little :) ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of. :)


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards<puts up hand that stick with MS news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good idea.

"Jon Peltier" wrote in message
...
There are two problems with NNTP, from Microsoft's viewpoint:

1. It's old and unshiny.
2. It was not invented in Redmond.

3. They are not able to control it - now they decide what is THE right
answer
4. It doesn't have the highly desirable points (now what can they possibly
be for)

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...

"Jon Peltier" wrote in message
...
There are two problems with NNTP, from Microsoft's viewpoint:

1. It's old and unshiny.
2. It was not invented in Redmond.

3. They are not able to control it - now they decide what is THE right
answer
4. It doesn't have the highly desirable points (now what can they possibly
be for)
Three is the key. I think we will get steamrollered.
SG

On Wed, 05 May 2010 23:26:01 GMT,
z (Bruce Sinclair) wrote:

In article , "T. Valko" wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still a
web based forum!

This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is good
with nothing (well, OK, very little :) ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of. :)


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good idea.




As just a user and occasional contributor, I concur with Bruce's analysis. I
went and tried the web interface last night (as I have for other forums in the
past), and found it much more difficult to use than the newsgroups. It crashed
a few times (page not accessible errors).

I have better things to do with my time, so when these newsgroups stop
functioning, I will cut down my participation significantly.
--ron

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more capable
users amongst us.

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 May 2010 23:26:01 GMT,
z (Bruce Sinclair) wrote:

In article , "T. Valko"
wrote:
I didn't go to this link to read about the replacement forum:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities...s/default.mspx

So I have no idea if that link mentions the location of the new forums.

The new Excel forums are located at:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx

I've started posting there. The UI is completely different but it's still
a
web based forum!

This is a backward step IMO. To me, newsgroups have everything that is
good
with nothing (well, OK, very little :) ) that is bad about the on line
community. A short list of these would include:

Quick and easy.
Simple disply.
Can get headers only and download just what you want to read.
Properly threaded discussions.
Access to hundreds/thousands of helpful knowlegeable people not only
willing
but eager to help.
Text only (ie *not* web based).
Many news readers available ... there's is bound to be something out
there
to suit everyone.
Archived.

Negatives ? Well, a few spammers and idiots ... but most news software has
excellent filters, so that's taken care of. :)


For myself, I will never use a browser to read news or "forums". It's too
slow, too clunky and cumbersome, has bad to non existent threading, bad to
no filters and is ugly, to name a few reasons.

I guess there will be a few die hards <puts up hand that stick with MS
news
groups, for a while at least, and it is likely there will still be some
traffic for a while with a few people willing and able to help ... but it
sounds like MS is trying to kill off this helpful support line.

Given it's free to them, I can't imagine why they think this is a good
idea.




As just a user and occasional contributor, I concur with Bruce's analysis.
I
went and tried the web interface last night (as I have for other forums in
the
past), and found it much more difficult to use than the newsgroups. It
crashed
a few times (page not accessible errors).

I have better things to do with my time, so when these newsgroups stop
functioning, I will cut down my participation significantly.
--ron

On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"
wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called an NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better than
the Web UI.
--ron

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron

Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron


.

On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:45:01 -0700, Jim Thomlinson
wrote:

Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it. Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson

Jim,

Are you referring to the NNTP Bridge? Or the Web UI?

Thanks.
--ron

Avatar - wow I never joined the community so as to have a cool avatar!

Points - I think it is insidious for two reasons, first you get people
points chasing (just look at Experts Exchange), and secondly I fully expect
MS to use those points as some time in the future. And what did obtaining a
gold start give you?

Edit posts - that is a double edged sword, as often a poster will read your
mistaken post before you correct it and may be confused/distracted by it.
You can easily follow-up with a correction, as you can/do in the NGs, but
if you do edit I feel it would be better to leave the original mistake and
then add the correction, it will avoid any chance of confusion.

Screen space - filling the screen with junk, sound like the current MS
philosophy to me generally (style gallery in the ribbon!).


--

HTH

Bob

"Jim Thomlinson" wrote in message
...
Ok I have tried it. For all of the negative feedback I don't mind it.
Could
it be better... Absolutely. But compared to some other on line forums and
the
like it is darn good. And heck I even get to have a really cool avatar.

As for points they are par for the course on so many of these sites. I am
with Bob that they are kind of useless. Perhaps I am just bitter since I
just
got my gold star in the general questions forum and now they are wiping
that
out. Now how is everyone supposed to be impressed.

Things I like... You can edit the post you made. I can not count the
number
of times that I had to back track a posting for a typo or just palin silly
mistake. Now I can look smarter by fixing the mistakes...

First pet peave is the use of screen space. There is a lot of wasted
space.
I would prefer to seem more content and less junk / blank space.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Bob Phillips" wrote:

I have tried it, it is a tad slow, and you still have the odd groupings
in
Answers.

--

HTH

Bob

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 May 2010 12:34:41 +0100, "Bob Phillips"

wrote:

That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't
care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to
your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Bob

I will lose, also, by not participating. I did notice something called
an
NNTP
Bridge. I haven't tried that access method yet. Maybe it'll be better
than
the Web UI.
--ron


.

In article , "Bob Phillips" wrote:
That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more capable
users amongst us.

Now *that* is an excellent point.

There are many helpful people here, many of them with the mystical 'MVP'
status. :)
Did MS ask anyone that is actually *in* this on line community what they
thought ?
I suspect not, but I look forward to hearing anyone say that this is not so
and that MS consulted widely before announcing these changes.

Didn't ask me...

--
Don Guillett
Microsoft MVP Excel
SalesAid Software

"Bruce Sinclair" wrote
in message ...
In article , "Bob Phillips"
wrote:
That is a shame Ron, I have enjoyed your contributions. But MS don't care,
there will always be hundreds stepping up even if they aren't up to your
capabilities, and they have shown a blind indifference to those more
capable
users amongst us.

Now *that* is an excellent point.

There are many helpful people here, many of them with the mystical 'MVP'
status. :)
Did MS ask anyone that is actually *in* this on line community what they
thought ?
I suspect not, but I look forward to hearing anyone say that this is not
so
and that MS consulted widely before announcing these changes.

Thu, 06 May 2010 06:44:24 -0400 from Ron Rosenfeld
:
I have better things to do with my time, so when these newsgroups stop
functioning, I will cut down my participation significantly.

Why do you think these newsgroups will stop functioning? It's in the
nature of Usenet that a newsgroup, once created, has a life of its
own. Sure, Microsoft won't be driving new traffic here, but that
doesn't stop the rest of us from continuing to read and post.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...