So will google groups still access this forum once it relocates??

"Jef Gorbach" wrote:
So will google groups still access this forum once
it relocates??

That is not really possible, well at least not without significant
investment by Google.

Google relies on a particular network protocol (NNTP) to access the
Microsoft forums archived on the MSnews server. Actually, Google relies on
Giganews, which in turn relies on the MSnews server.

Hypothetically, Microsoft might still mirror new forum activity on their
MSnews server. That is how the current "Discussion Groups" forum works.

But my understanding of their explanation is that they will not. They
write:

"Microsoft has a long history of establishing newsgroups that channel users
and issues into the newsgroup (NNTP) space where information is shared and
problems can be addressed by the community. [....] Using forums as the
online support strategy will reduce the number of redundant resources and
centralize content, making community contributions more broadly available
and impactful. Beginning in June 2010, Microsoft will begin closing
newsgroups and migrating users to Microsoft forums".

It seems clear that they are contrasting "newsgroup" access with "forum"
access, and they will be limiting access to the "forum" only through their
interface.

Theoretically, Google could design a program that "reads" the Microsoft web
interface, sorts things out, and archives inquires and responses in the form
that Google is accustomed to. After all, parsing HTML is Google's core
business.

However, I doubt that would happen. It would require that Google treat the
Microsoft "newsgroups" differently from the many thousands of other
newsgroups that Google archives.

Moreover, Google Groups is not the only other way to access Microsoft
newsgroups today. Even if GG implements a solution, users of the other
alternatives will be affected adversely.

To put all this in a positive light, I suspect that Microsoft's purpose is
to shield its forums from spam. That would be a good thing, if Microsoft
weren't so inept at supporting reliable forums.

Of course, maybe Microsoft will change. ;-)

I wrote:
"Jef Gorbach" wrote:
So will google groups still access this forum
once it relocates??

That is not really possible, well at least not
without significant investment by Google.

I should clarify that I interpreted Jef's question to be: will Google
Groups continue to track contributions made to the new forum?

Two related questions a (a) whether GG (or Giganews) will continue to
permit posting to its own set of microsoft.public newsgroups, creating an
independent forum in effect; and (b) even if not, whether GG will keep its
huge archive of old postings to microsoft.public newsgroups for searching
and reading, and for how long?

I suspect the answers are "no" and "probably not".

With respect to #a, the newsgroup system (Usenet) is composed of an
unstructured set of computers that lack any central administration or
authority. So theoretically, GG could continue to maintain an active set of
microsoft.public newsgroups, allowing users to access them exclusively
through the GG web interface. Giganews could do essentially the same thing,
and GG would never know the difference. (I don't know if Giganews has a
user interface of its own.)

However, note that Microsoft is a trademarked name; and the content of the
microsoft.public NGs originate on Microsoft servers. So I expect that
Microsoft will require that all well-known mirrors of the microsoft.public
NGs stop providing active acccess -- that is, accepting postings.

With respect to #b, the same legal issue applies to merely retaining an
archive of old microsoft.public NGs. Even though the archives themselves
are the property of their owners (e.g. GG), the NG names still contain a
trademarked name. Whether or not Microsoft will stand on that principle, or
GG renames those NGs in its archive, remains to be seen. But in any case, I
doubt that GG would permit read and search access on those NGs, but not
write access (posting).

Of course, I don't know. We might have to just wait and see.


----- original message -----

"Joe User" <joeu2004 wrote in message
...
"Jef Gorbach" wrote:
So will google groups still access this forum once
it relocates??

That is not really possible, well at least not without significant
investment by Google.

Google relies on a particular network protocol (NNTP) to access the
Microsoft forums archived on the MSnews server. Actually, Google relies
on Giganews, which in turn relies on the MSnews server.

Hypothetically, Microsoft might still mirror new forum activity on their
MSnews server. That is how the current "Discussion Groups" forum works.

But my understanding of their explanation is that they will not. They
write:

"Microsoft has a long history of establishing newsgroups that channel
users and issues into the newsgroup (NNTP) space where information is
shared and problems can be addressed by the community. [....] Using
forums as the online support strategy will reduce the number of redundant
resources and centralize content, making community contributions more
broadly available and impactful. Beginning in June 2010, Microsoft will
begin closing newsgroups and migrating users to Microsoft forums".

It seems clear that they are contrasting "newsgroup" access with "forum"
access, and they will be limiting access to the "forum" only through their
interface.

Theoretically, Google could design a program that "reads" the Microsoft
web interface, sorts things out, and archives inquires and responses in
the form that Google is accustomed to. After all, parsing HTML is
Google's core business.

However, I doubt that would happen. It would require that Google treat
the Microsoft "newsgroups" differently from the many thousands of other
newsgroups that Google archives.

Moreover, Google Groups is not the only other way to access Microsoft
newsgroups today. Even if GG implements a solution, users of the other
alternatives will be affected adversely.

To put all this in a positive light, I suspect that Microsoft's purpose is
to shield its forums from spam. That would be a good thing, if Microsoft
weren't so inept at supporting reliable forums.

Of course, maybe Microsoft will change. ;-)