[JE McGimpsey[_2_]]

Since this is OT, I've cross-posted and set follow-up to
microsoft.public.excel.misc

I probably thought more like you do a couple of months ago. Then, every
post from ExcelForum carried an ad in the footer, and, when looking at
the site, everyone who wasn't a member was listed as "Guest" and their
registration status was "Not Yet". The threading was also broken.

After a complaint about those items, Mr. Rubin removed the advertising
and worked to fix the threading. He also changed to forum so that it's
clear when posts are made to the newsgroup rather than the forum (and it
would be a dull user indeed who couldn't tell that most of the forum
posts are questions, while the answers are mainly posted directly to the
groups). It's also clear that those of us posting via other means aren't
just hanging back from registering.

Could they make it a bit clearer? Probably, but it's very clear to me
from the web pages that I would be posting to or reading from a usenet
forum (which is defined in the header) rather than to something that was
produced by ExcelForum.

You could just as easily make the statement that MS's web portal is
misleading because the tips don't come from MS - and MS doesn't even
have any disclaimers. In fact, it seems to me that MS is worse, since it
purports, at least by implication, that these newsgroups are part of
"Microsoft Communities". While it's true that many of us use the msnews
newsservers, these groups no more "belong" to MS than any other
newsgroup does. To use your analogy, all the MS web portal does is
repackage EXTERNAL content from others and present it as if it were an
MS service. The only service is the use of the msnews servers - and
while that's a substantial server farm, it's also a very shrewd part of
cutting the overall cost of customer service. The groups themselves
would continue to exist even if MS shut down the farm.

To me, it's not a matter of commercial content on usenet. If you don't
want to read via a web browser, you don't have to see any of the
adverts. Likewise, people can read your posts commercial free via
newsreaders, or by using a portal that contains adverts to support it.
In either case, your altruism is noted (and emphasized on the Forum -
with newsreaders it's merely assumed.

I agree that the site is too commercial. That's why I'd never use it (in
addition to all the other shortcomings vis-a-vis reading news with a
newsreader).


In article ,
Hank Scorpio wrote:

I take all of your points below, but that ain't my grumble.

ExcelForum is clealy a very, VERY commercial site. (Find a page on the
site which ISN'T plastered with ads.) Usenet, on the other hand, is
very, VERY community oriented. When I answer someone's question (or
you do, or Dave does, or Norman does, or...) then the answer is NOT
"From Excel Tip.com" as the header of the browser window would
suggest. All ExcelTip.com is doing is repackaging content that comes
from elsewhere, and is provided by the likes of thee and me on a
non-commercial basis. And although they DO mention that the posts
"will be propogated to usenet", IMHO they're just not making it clear
enough that:
- Usenet is NOT brought to you by John Rubin's "leading source" of
Excel information and
- The "Forum" is just one way of getting posts into Usenet and
reading them from Usenet. It's NOT Excel Tip.com's own forum, just a
portal to something else which is quite independent of their site; and
the vast, OVERWHELMING, majority of the content has never been created
through that site.

Now that doesn't mean that I'm waving a red flag from the barricades
and chanting "No commercial content on Usenet!!!" or anything; far
from it. There are a lot of people (like, say, Chip or Stephen Bullen)
who put bread on their tables through Excel consulting work and their
sites (which are often pointed to in Usenet posts) obviously promote
their services. I also recall one thread in which a poster asked about
setting up their own consulting business; the poster asked how they
could establish a name for themselves. A reply suggested that posting
on Usenet was one way. I have no problem with this. The big
difference, the HUGE difference is that Chip and Stephen and whoever
else aren't packaging up other people's content (including mine) on
their sites and calling it their own "Forum". Click on my name in the
forum, and Excel Tip will advise that "This user has not registered".
That's right; because "This user" is NOT, in fact, an Excel Tip.com
user.

I'm not suggesting that Excel Tip.com is blatantly misrepresenting
anything, and the automatic notification when a reply comes in is
clearly a useful "value adding" service. (Spam protecting the address,
maybe not so much; the MS site does advise you of how to spam protect
your address, and it's not exactly rocket science or even pivot tables
come to that.) I DO, however, feel that they're sailing a little close
to the wind on this point and should be making it clearer that the
"Forum" is a portal (granted, with a few extra bells and whistles as
you list below) to EXTERNAL content, and (in CONTENT terms), very
little more than that. JMHO.