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Old August 16th 19, 05:29 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

One loads a spreadsheet into Excel; never mind there are calculations
(NO macros).
Then one exits Excel and gets the CRAP message; never mind you did
NOTHING but look at it.
How does one get rid of this CRAP response?

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Old August 16th 19, 05:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

One loads a spreadsheet into Excel; never mind there are calculations (NO
macros).
Then one exits Excel and gets the CRAP message; never mind you did NOTHING
but look at it.
How does one get rid of this CRAP response?


Any formulas will recalculate automatically and so Excel assumes changes have
been made as a result. If you just want to view, try opening 'Read Only'!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
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Old August 16th 19, 09:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

One loads a spreadsheet into Excel; never mind there are calculations
(NO macros). Then one exits Excel and gets the CRAP message; never
mind you did NOTHING but look at it. How does one get rid of this
CRAP response?


Any formulas will recalculate automatically and so Excel assumes
changes have been made as a result. If you just want to view, try
opening 'Read Only'!


The OP never mentioned which *version* of Excel he is using. As I
recall, as of Excel 2007, and later, the default setting was not to
auto-calculate on loading a spreadsheet, but in prior versions the
default was to recalculate the formulae on loading the document.

Here's a Youtube video showing how to enable/disable automatic formula
updating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzR6Hds8sw
https://spreadsheeto.com/recalculate...resh-formulas/

The problem with disabling auto-calculate on loading the document is
that cells with formulae won't get updated for other cells whose data
would change on load, like datestamps. The user would need to remember
to hit F9 before he prints an open document to force an immediate recalc
of all formulae; however, users often forget this, so what they print is
indeed what the spreadsheet shows, but not what the formulated cells
should actually be showing to make correct their formulated content.
The problem gets compounded when formulae link between worksheets.
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Old August 16th 19, 04:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

One loads a spreadsheet into Excel; never mind there are calculations
(NO macros). Then one exits Excel and gets the CRAP message; never
mind you did NOTHING but look at it. How does one get rid of this
CRAP response?


Any formulas will recalculate automatically and so Excel assumes
changes have been made as a result. If you just want to view, try
opening 'Read Only'!


The OP never mentioned which *version* of Excel he is using. As I
recall, as of Excel 2007, and later, the default setting was not to
auto-calculate on loading a spreadsheet, but in prior versions the
default was to recalculate the formulae on loading the document.


I have every version up to 2016 plus 365, all at default settings for this; -
they all prompt to save after viewing sheets!

Here's a Youtube video showing how to enable/disable automatic formula
updating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzR6Hds8sw
https://spreadsheeto.com/recalculate...resh-formulas/


This has always been the built-in method for managing Calculation in Excel for
as far back as I can remember (v4.0)!<g

The problem with disabling auto-calculate on loading the document is
that cells with formulae won't get updated for other cells whose data
would change on load, like datestamps. The user would need to remember
to hit F9 before he prints an open document to force an immediate recalc
of all formulae; however, users often forget this, so what they print is
indeed what the spreadsheet shows, but not what the formulated cells
should actually be showing to make correct their formulated content.
The problem gets compounded when formulae link between worksheets.


I agree!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
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Old August 16th 19, 10:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzR6Hds8sw
https://spreadsheeto.com/recalculate...resh-formulas/


This has always been the built-in method for managing Calculation in
Excel for as far back as I can remember (v4.0)!<g


That's what I thought, too. I don't have Excel on my home PC to test.
Although there is an automatic recalculation setting in Excel, I have to
wonder if that only applies while the document is loaded; i.e.,
forumated cells become dynamic in getting automatically updated while
you are in the spreadsheet. Automatic calculation while within the
spreadsheet is not necessarily the same as for automatic calculation
when *loading* the spreadsheet.

Back when I did have Excel (starting with XP/2002 and then up to 2019
with an Office 365 subscription), I had a spreadsheet showing my IRA
account and its monthly values, so I could track the fund's performance.
It had some cells with formulae. Just opening the spreadsheet to only
look at it and then close it resulted in getting prompted to save. With
all the clicking to load Excel and browse to the spreadsheet to open it,
or using File Explorer to browse to the spreadsheet file and
double-click on it, or navigate to Start Menu - My Documents -
Finances folder to double-click on the .xls file, two clicks to unload
the spreadsheet (one on the X titlebar button, another to click No on
the prompt) versus just 1 click seemed a trivial nuisance.

For my spreadsheets, there aren't many formulated cells. In contrast,
some users complain about the auto-recalc-on-load feature because they
have so many formulae or they take long to calculate. Opening the
document takes a long time. They have to wait until they can, say,
update a value in a single cell and then close the document. Might be
some huge spreadsheet with hundreds of columns, thousands of rows,
multiple linked worksheets, and either lots of formulae or very
complicated formulae all of which take time to recalculate on a document
load. If auto-calc is set to Manual, the auto-recalc-on-save makes them
wait for the document to unload. Users wanting to make an incremental
update to the document don't like having to sit around waiting for all
the recalculations.

Again, since I don't have Excel, the following is from what I've read.
In Excel, go to Tools - Options - Calculation (navigation may differ
in different versions of Excel) and set to Manual. Supposedly that
disables auto-calculation (but I don't know if that is only when editing
an already loaded document or also when loading it). In addition,
deselect the Recalculate Before Save option in Excel. Just remember
that you are then responsible for hitting F9 when you want the
formulated cells to reflect correct values.

The OP has formulae in the cells of his spreadsheet. That means those
cells' values can change. The only way to be sure if there is a change
is to perform the calculation again: might have the same value, might
not, but won't know until the calculation is performed. Maybe the two
options mentioned above will get the OP what he wants for behavior;
however, he'll have to remember to hit F9 to update all those formulated
cells to either see what is their current value, before printing the
document, or before using it elsewhere (since a document, like a Word
file, can link to and even embed an Excel spreadsheet).

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pre...peed-important

Excel is an editor. Opening a document in edit mode means changes are
likely hence the defaults for automatic recalc (on load, on change, or
on exit/save). If the OP wants to only view the spreadsheet in
read-only mode, don't double-click the .xls file as that would [try to]
load it into Excel in editable mode. Load Excel and use its File -
Open Read-Only menu; see:

https://excel.tips.net/T002223_Openi...Read-Only.html

Alternatively use an Excel viewer program to make sure the document is
opened in read-only mode. Microsoft used to provide Excel Viewer (free)
which was read-only mode, but they retired that program; however, some
download or archive web sites may still have a copy of it (e.g.,
https://filehippo.com/download_microsoft_excel_viewer/). There are 3rd
party viewers (some free), too.

He could right-click on the file in Windows Explorer and flag it
read-only; however, since it is an editor, I suspect Excel would popup a
warning when double-clicking on the .xls file which would attempt to
load in edit mode, so another CRAP message to see. Also, if the OP
edited the file, he could not do a simple save since the original file
is read-only flagged, and would have to use Save As to save into a
differently named file.

If the OP wants the option to sometimes open the spreadsheet in
read-only mode or sometimes edit it, he could go into that spreadsheet's
password properties and just enable the "Read-only recommended" option.
But that might be viewed by the OP as another CRAP message to see when
loading the document (rather than when unloading it). See:

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...e-34b8ddc0beb5
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/disa...cel-32586.html


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Old August 17th 19, 12:24 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzR6Hds8sw
https://spreadsheeto.com/recalculate...resh-formulas/


This has always been the built-in method for managing Calculation in
Excel for as far back as I can remember (v4.0)!<g


That's what I thought, too. I don't have Excel on my home PC to test.
Although there is an automatic recalculation setting in Excel, I have to
wonder if that only applies while the document is loaded; i.e.,
forumated cells become dynamic in getting automatically updated while
you are in the spreadsheet. Automatic calculation while within the
spreadsheet is not necessarily the same as for automatic calculation
when *loading* the spreadsheet.

Back when I did have Excel (starting with XP/2002 and then up to 2019
with an Office 365 subscription), I had a spreadsheet showing my IRA
account and its monthly values, so I could track the fund's performance.
It had some cells with formulae. Just opening the spreadsheet to only
look at it and then close it resulted in getting prompted to save. With
all the clicking to load Excel and browse to the spreadsheet to open it,
or using File Explorer to browse to the spreadsheet file and
double-click on it, or navigate to Start Menu - My Documents -
Finances folder to double-click on the .xls file, two clicks to unload
the spreadsheet (one on the X titlebar button, another to click No on
the prompt) versus just 1 click seemed a trivial nuisance.

For my spreadsheets, there aren't many formulated cells. In contrast,
some users complain about the auto-recalc-on-load feature because they
have so many formulae or they take long to calculate. Opening the
document takes a long time. They have to wait until they can, say,
update a value in a single cell and then close the document. Might be
some huge spreadsheet with hundreds of columns, thousands of rows,
multiple linked worksheets, and either lots of formulae or very
complicated formulae all of which take time to recalculate on a document
load. If auto-calc is set to Manual, the auto-recalc-on-save makes them
wait for the document to unload. Users wanting to make an incremental
update to the document don't like having to sit around waiting for all
the recalculations.

Again, since I don't have Excel, the following is from what I've read.
In Excel, go to Tools - Options - Calculation (navigation may differ
in different versions of Excel) and set to Manual. Supposedly that
disables auto-calculation (but I don't know if that is only when editing
an already loaded document or also when loading it). In addition,
deselect the Recalculate Before Save option in Excel. Just remember
that you are then responsible for hitting F9 when you want the
formulated cells to reflect correct values.

The OP has formulae in the cells of his spreadsheet. That means those
cells' values can change. The only way to be sure if there is a change
is to perform the calculation again: might have the same value, might
not, but won't know until the calculation is performed. Maybe the two
options mentioned above will get the OP what he wants for behavior;
however, he'll have to remember to hit F9 to update all those formulated
cells to either see what is their current value, before printing the
document, or before using it elsewhere (since a document, like a Word
file, can link to and even embed an Excel spreadsheet).

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pre...peed-important

Excel is an editor. Opening a document in edit mode means changes are
likely hence the defaults for automatic recalc (on load, on change, or
on exit/save). If the OP wants to only view the spreadsheet in
read-only mode, don't double-click the .xls file as that would [try to]
load it into Excel in editable mode. Load Excel and use its File -
Open Read-Only menu; see:

https://excel.tips.net/T002223_Openi...Read-Only.html

Alternatively use an Excel viewer program to make sure the document is
opened in read-only mode. Microsoft used to provide Excel Viewer (free)
which was read-only mode, but they retired that program; however, some
download or archive web sites may still have a copy of it (e.g.,
https://filehippo.com/download_microsoft_excel_viewer/). There are 3rd
party viewers (some free), too.

He could right-click on the file in Windows Explorer and flag it
read-only; however, since it is an editor, I suspect Excel would popup a
warning when double-clicking on the .xls file which would attempt to
load in edit mode, so another CRAP message to see. Also, if the OP
edited the file, he could not do a simple save since the original file
is read-only flagged, and would have to use Save As to save into a
differently named file.

If the OP wants the option to sometimes open the spreadsheet in
read-only mode or sometimes edit it, he could go into that spreadsheet's
password properties and just enable the "Read-only recommended" option.
But that might be viewed by the OP as another CRAP message to see when
loading the document (rather than when unloading it). See:

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...e-34b8ddc0beb5
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/disa...cel-32586.html


Excellent observations on your part! The prompt to save is a 1 key response
anyway so I don't see why the OP can't just hit the "n" key, OR use Ctrl+S
before closing if auto-calcs need to be saved.

So if you don't have Excel now then what are you using for spreadsheets?

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
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Old August 17th 19, 01:28 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

So if you don't have Excel now then what are you using for
spreadsheets?


LibreOffice Calc. However, I'm finding finding functions in it a lot
harder to find than I thought. Too often I'll finally find what I'm
looking for and wonder why the hell it was buried over there. There's
not really a migration to Calc. You have to learn it anew. Only little
of what I learned in Excel comes forward to Calc other than some very
basic boob stuff. Excel's ribbon logic is more intelligent, too.

But LibreOffice is free. I tried Kinsoft's Office Suite awhile back,
but after a few months of using it they turned it into adwa printouts
got watermarked, many features got disabled after a 30-day trial period
(and why many reviews were glowing because those authors didn't test
after the trial period), tables couldn't be sorted in docs (not even in
the payware version). I tried Softmaker's FreeOffice, but soon ran into
its limitations. While Excel and LibreOffic Calc show the spreadsheets
how I expect (from Excel), the other suites didn't visually render them
the same. Still, I'm getting weary of having to go online to search on
how to do something in Calc that I can find a lot faster in Excel (for
what I've used before but also for functions that I've never used
before). Of course, all those free/paid alternate office suites lack an
e-mail client, calendering, and contacts, so I was looking at Outlook
alternatives, too, like EssentialPIM and em Client. I thought the free
eM Client was good (if you have less than 2 accounts, but I have more)
until it royally ****ed up my contacts both locally and on the server
(massive duplicates). EPIM used to limit to just 2 accounts max, but
https://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free indicates they
lifted that restriction.

While MS Office 365 is payware, I wouldn't pay the $99/year that
Microsoft wants. I got it a lot cheaper at eBay at $33/year, but only
after doing lots of watching and research to find legit sellers there.
Now that some other of my family are considering dumping their WinXP PCs
and moving up to Win10 along with upgrading to much newer versions of MS
Office, and with Office 365 doling out 5 seats per licence, the cost per
user is a lot cheaper, so I might go back to Office 365. Plus I find
the Win10 apps for Mail, Calendar, and Contacts to be pathetic. I can
manage using the Mail WinRT/UWP app, but I can't view the raw source of
an e-mail, so I have to use their webmail client for that (and I look at
the headers often enough that I want that feature). Calendar is okay
but limited on how long to sleep after a reminder shows up, plus I've
encountered problems with no notification at the reminder time. Their
People app is really bad.

By the time I pay for a 3rd party Pro office suite and EPIM Pro, it's
getting close to the price of Office 365, but for just the 1-year
subscription cost versus repaying every year for the subscription
(compared to repaying every 1 to 3 years for the next major verison
update of the 3rd party non-subscriptionware).

I'm not financially throttled, so paying for software isn't some major
aversion to me. I'll keep using LibreOffice for another 5, or more,
months to give it fleshing out to see if I'll stick with it. I did that
with Thunderbird: trialed it for 6 months as my only e-mail client but
dumped it after 6 months and went back to MS Outlook. For me, free is
nice but not essential.
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Old August 17th 19, 02:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: May 2018
Posts: 3
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

On 17-Aug-2019 12:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
GS wrote:

So if you don't have Excel now then what are you using for
spreadsheets?

LibreOffice Calc. However, I'm finding finding functions in it a lot
harder to find than I thought. Too often I'll finally find what I'm
looking for and wonder why the hell it was buried over there. There's
not really a migration to Calc. You have to learn it anew. Only little
of what I learned in Excel comes forward to Calc other than some very
basic boob stuff. Excel's ribbon logic is more intelligent, too.

But LibreOffice is free. I tried Kinsoft's Office Suite awhile back,
but after a few months of using it they turned it into adwa printouts
got watermarked, many features got disabled after a 30-day trial period
(and why many reviews were glowing because those authors didn't test
after the trial period), tables couldn't be sorted in docs (not even in
the payware version). I tried Softmaker's FreeOffice, but soon ran into
its limitations. While Excel and LibreOffic Calc show the spreadsheets
how I expect (from Excel), the other suites didn't visually render them
the same. Still, I'm getting weary of having to go online to search on
how to do something in Calc that I can find a lot faster in Excel (for
what I've used before but also for functions that I've never used
before). Of course, all those free/paid alternate office suites lack an
e-mail client, calendering, and contacts, so I was looking at Outlook
alternatives, too, like EssentialPIM and em Client. I thought the free
eM Client was good (if you have less than 2 accounts, but I have more)
until it royally ****ed up my contacts both locally and on the server
(massive duplicates). EPIM used to limit to just 2 accounts max, but
https://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free indicates they
lifted that restriction.

While MS Office 365 is payware, I wouldn't pay the $99/year that
Microsoft wants. I got it a lot cheaper at eBay at $33/year, but only
after doing lots of watching and research to find legit sellers there.
Now that some other of my family are considering dumping their WinXP PCs
and moving up to Win10 along with upgrading to much newer versions of MS
Office, and with Office 365 doling out 5 seats per licence, the cost per
user is a lot cheaper, so I might go back to Office 365. Plus I find
the Win10 apps for Mail, Calendar, and Contacts to be pathetic. I can
manage using the Mail WinRT/UWP app, but I can't view the raw source of
an e-mail, so I have to use their webmail client for that (and I look at
the headers often enough that I want that feature). Calendar is okay
but limited on how long to sleep after a reminder shows up, plus I've
encountered problems with no notification at the reminder time. Their
People app is really bad.

By the time I pay for a 3rd party Pro office suite and EPIM Pro, it's
getting close to the price of Office 365, but for just the 1-year
subscription cost versus repaying every year for the subscription
(compared to repaying every 1 to 3 years for the next major verison
update of the 3rd party non-subscriptionware).

I'm not financially throttled, so paying for software isn't some major
aversion to me. I'll keep using LibreOffice for another 5, or more,
months to give it fleshing out to see if I'll stick with it. I did that
with Thunderbird: trialed it for 6 months as my only e-mail client but
dumped it after 6 months and went back to MS Outlook. For me, free is
nice but not essential.


And, while we're on the subject of alternatives for Excel, the killer
for me is the need for macros - based on Excel's visual basic for
applications. I've been using Excel in its various incarnations for over
20 years and practically every spreadsheet I use has a home-grown
programming function associated with it.* As far as I'm aware, none of
the alternative spreadsheets, free or paid for, allows the import of
Excel macros.
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Old August 17th 19, 02:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

So if you don't have Excel now then what are you using for
spreadsheets?


LibreOffice Calc. However, I'm finding finding functions in it a lot
harder to find than I thought. Too often I'll finally find what I'm
looking for and wonder why the hell it was buried over there. There's
not really a migration to Calc. You have to learn it anew. Only little
of what I learned in Excel comes forward to Calc other than some very
basic boob stuff. Excel's ribbon logic is more intelligent, too.


I've also found LO Calc a complete learning curve initially, but I was forced
to get into it by user clients many years ago. I now offer my Excel templates
as Calc templates as a result.

But LibreOffice is free. I tried Kinsoft's Office Suite awhile back,
but after a few months of using it they turned it into adwa printouts
got watermarked, many features got disabled after a 30-day trial period
(and why many reviews were glowing because those authors didn't test
after the trial period), tables couldn't be sorted in docs (not even in
the payware version). I tried Softmaker's FreeOffice, but soon ran into
its limitations.


I can say the same!

While Excel and LibreOffic Calc show the spreadsheets
how I expect (from Excel), the other suites didn't visually render them
the same. Still, I'm getting weary of having to go online to search on
how to do something in Calc that I can find a lot faster in Excel (for
what I've used before but also for functions that I've never used
before).


I keep the offline help for v6.0 just so I don't have to go online. It does me
fine for the most part dealing with the basics.

I also have fpSpread.ocx (v7.0/8.0) for making my own stand-alone spreadsheet
apps in VB6. I got into this when MS 1st introduced the Ribbon UI; - my Excel
app users freaked out about the initial disorientation it threw at them so I
needed a way to duplicate my Excel applications outside of MS Office.

But fpSpread, however, is not 100% Excel compatible; it only supports the old
xls file formats! Nor can it accept inserting existing Excel sheets; - I have
to build them via code. It also only works with WinForms solutions in VS2017 so
I've since bought the SpreadsheetGear DotNet Assemblies to use with C# there.
Bonus is I can use all my Excel templates with this and work with it pretty
much the same as I did using Excel as my development platform.

Of course, all those free/paid alternate office suites lack an
e-mail client, calendering, and contacts, so I was looking at Outlook
alternatives, too, like EssentialPIM and em Client. I thought the free
eM Client was good (if you have less than 2 accounts, but I have more)
until it royally ****ed up my contacts both locally and on the server
(massive duplicates). EPIM used to limit to just 2 accounts max, but
https://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free indicates they
lifted that restriction.


I've been using ThunderBird ever since MS dropped their old forums and wiped
out all my data, mail, and news feed threads. Does a great job for mail,
newsfeeds, and calendar IMO! It's never screwed up on me either!

While MS Office 365 is payware, I wouldn't pay the $99/year that
Microsoft wants. I got it a lot cheaper at eBay at $33/year, but only
after doing lots of watching and research to find legit sellers there.
Now that some other of my family are considering dumping their WinXP PCs
and moving up to Win10 along with upgrading to much newer versions of MS
Office, and with Office 365 doling out 5 seats per licence, the cost per
user is a lot cheaper, so I might go back to Office 365.


I have Personal for $CAD79/yr, installable on up to 5 devices. I didn't think
I'd go for it at all but given the cost per device it's the best deal going
IMO!

Plus I find
the Win10 apps for Mail, Calendar, and Contacts to be pathetic. I can
manage using the Mail WinRT/UWP app, but I can't view the raw source of
an e-mail, so I have to use their webmail client for that (and I look at
the headers often enough that I want that feature). Calendar is okay
but limited on how long to sleep after a reminder shows up, plus I've
encountered problems with no notification at the reminder time. Their
People app is really bad.


Most Win10 apps and built-in utilities are spyware mining our data and sending
it 'home' under the hood. I disable Auto-Updates so it runs when I want it to,
and I block as much spyware as possible using 3rd party software.

I find the ThunderBird calendar, reminders, contacts (Phone Book), events,
tasks, and sidebars very efficient.

By the time I pay for a 3rd party Pro office suite and EPIM Pro, it's
getting close to the price of Office 365, but for just the 1-year
subscription cost versus repaying every year for the subscription
(compared to repaying every 1 to 3 years for the next major verison
update of the 3rd party non-subscriptionware).


I do believe you can let your 365 subscription lapse a year or two and when you
renew, it gets updated. During the lapse period it remains as last updated. (I
could be wrong, though!)

I'm not financially throttled, so paying for software isn't some major
aversion to me. I'll keep using LibreOffice for another 5, or more,
months to give it fleshing out to see if I'll stick with it. I did that
with Thunderbird: trialed it for 6 months as my only e-mail client but
dumped it after 6 months and went back to MS Outlook. For me, free is
nice but not essential.


Any MS-based mail client apps, servers, and computer logins allows MS direct
access; - bad idea IMO! Turns out Gmail is heading in the same direction.
Perhaps I should start using my own website mailboxes!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
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Old August 17th 19, 02:21 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

On 17-Aug-2019 12:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
GS wrote:

So if you don't have Excel now then what are you using for
spreadsheets?

LibreOffice Calc. However, I'm finding finding functions in it a lot
harder to find than I thought. Too often I'll finally find what I'm
looking for and wonder why the hell it was buried over there. There's
not really a migration to Calc. You have to learn it anew. Only little
of what I learned in Excel comes forward to Calc other than some very
basic boob stuff. Excel's ribbon logic is more intelligent, too.

But LibreOffice is free. I tried Kinsoft's Office Suite awhile back,
but after a few months of using it they turned it into adwa printouts
got watermarked, many features got disabled after a 30-day trial period
(and why many reviews were glowing because those authors didn't test
after the trial period), tables couldn't be sorted in docs (not even in
the payware version). I tried Softmaker's FreeOffice, but soon ran into
its limitations. While Excel and LibreOffic Calc show the spreadsheets
how I expect (from Excel), the other suites didn't visually render them
the same. Still, I'm getting weary of having to go online to search on
how to do something in Calc that I can find a lot faster in Excel (for
what I've used before but also for functions that I've never used
before). Of course, all those free/paid alternate office suites lack an
e-mail client, calendering, and contacts, so I was looking at Outlook
alternatives, too, like EssentialPIM and em Client. I thought the free
eM Client was good (if you have less than 2 accounts, but I have more)
until it royally ****ed up my contacts both locally and on the server
(massive duplicates). EPIM used to limit to just 2 accounts max, but
https://www.essentialpim.com/pc-version/pro-vs-free indicates they
lifted that restriction.

While MS Office 365 is payware, I wouldn't pay the $99/year that
Microsoft wants. I got it a lot cheaper at eBay at $33/year, but only
after doing lots of watching and research to find legit sellers there.
Now that some other of my family are considering dumping their WinXP PCs
and moving up to Win10 along with upgrading to much newer versions of MS
Office, and with Office 365 doling out 5 seats per licence, the cost per
user is a lot cheaper, so I might go back to Office 365. Plus I find
the Win10 apps for Mail, Calendar, and Contacts to be pathetic. I can
manage using the Mail WinRT/UWP app, but I can't view the raw source of
an e-mail, so I have to use their webmail client for that (and I look at
the headers often enough that I want that feature). Calendar is okay
but limited on how long to sleep after a reminder shows up, plus I've
encountered problems with no notification at the reminder time. Their
People app is really bad.

By the time I pay for a 3rd party Pro office suite and EPIM Pro, it's
getting close to the price of Office 365, but for just the 1-year
subscription cost versus repaying every year for the subscription
(compared to repaying every 1 to 3 years for the next major verison
update of the 3rd party non-subscriptionware).

I'm not financially throttled, so paying for software isn't some major
aversion to me. I'll keep using LibreOffice for another 5, or more,
months to give it fleshing out to see if I'll stick with it. I did that
with Thunderbird: trialed it for 6 months as my only e-mail client but
dumped it after 6 months and went back to MS Outlook. For me, free is
nice but not essential.


And, while we're on the subject of alternatives for Excel, the killer for me
is the need for macros - based on Excel's visual basic for applications. I've
been using Excel in its various incarnations for over 20 years and
practically every spreadsheet I use has a home-grown programming function
associated with it.* As far as I'm aware, none of the alternative
spreadsheets, free or paid for, allows the import of Excel macros.


True, but LO Calc offers its Sun macro feature. While it may be a serious
learning curve from VBA, it's similar to DotNet programming in many ways. Also,
there has been talk (for some time now) of supporting VBA in future; - I think
they won't license VBA from MS but rather built their own 'converter' utility
if they go there at all!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
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microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion


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