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Old August 18th 19, 07:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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GS wrote:

GS wrote:

No, developers of Excel-based solutions do not ship Excel with their
program; - users MUST have MS Office installed on their machine to
use Excel-based programs.

Part of the turnkey cost is the customer buying Excel. When a customer
buys device that employs a commercial OS, they don't care and probably
aren't aware that they are buying the OS license. There are tons of
cash registers using embedded Windows, but the grocery store or
corporate business office doesn't care that part of the cost was to get
a Windows license. They bought a product, not its parts.


OSes can be licensed to devices as OEM distributable; - Excel must be
purchased for personal use and/or volume licensed for corporate use.

That does not conclude, though, that MS Office comes with Windows. When an
Excel-based developer creates solutions, Excel is used to do that. By
attrition, users of that solution MUST have Excel installed on their
machines prior to using Excel-based solutions. Excel itself is NOT
distributable by said developer(s) and so machines that don't have Excel
can't use Excel-based solutions!


The rep comes to the customer, installs the software solution, and
leaves. Why can't the rep also install Excel? Anyone can buy licenses
to Excel, but who registers it becomes the license owner. The rep
simply registers the Excel he installed to the customer that paid him.
Hell, I can buy a copy of Excel with its candidate license, and install
it on a friend's or family's computer for them to use, and I register it
as them being the licensee.


In the case cited here, I can see your point. What does downloaded software do
to install itself when a user doesn't want any part of MS Office installed?
That's why I bought my own spreadsheet controls; - to not be dependant on
Excel! (I think you're stretching things a bit here!)

While the example of cash register mentioned the OS, that's just the OS.
Some POS software must also get installed for that cash registry to do
its job. I've not gotten into POS (Point Of Sale) software to know what
is its typical licensing model.


Such things as cash registers and the like (POS devices) usually have their own
proprietary software pre-installed which is typically not Windows (or even
Linux). I have written POS apps that run under Windows on PCs, some tied to
accounting software either 3rd party or included in my app. Any Excel-based
versions are also available as stand-alone EXEs for users that don't use MS
Office.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

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Old August 18th 19, 08:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
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GS wrote:

Excel must be purchased for personal use and/or volume licensed for
corporate use.


I've just read through the Excel EULA. See:

http://download.microsoft.com/Docume...51bcbc7423.pdf

Nowhere does it state a /single/ retail licence cannot be use for
commercial purpose. In a turnkey setup, no one would be bundling in a
Home and Student, military, NFR, or CANEX version of Excel or in use for
in a software hosting scenario and those are the only ones where
commercial use is probhited. You inferred that a business would need a
volume license to use Excel. Not according to Microsoft's EULA.


No, I did not infer that! See below...

Please indicate where you cite that Excel must be purchases as a volume
license for commercial use, and that a retail license is invalid for
commercial use.


I did not state it MUST be purchased as a volume license; - just saying volume
licenses are available (for any use for that matter). Most IT pros in large
corporations usually prefer volume licenses for whatever MSO editions they run
throughout their networks.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
  #23   Report Post  
Old August 18th 19, 09:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2019
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Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

Such things as cash registers and the like (POS devices) usually have
their own proprietary software pre-installed which is typically not
Windows (or even Linux). I have written POS apps that run under
Windows on PCs, some tied to accounting software either 3rd party or
included in my app. Any Excel-based versions are also available as
stand-alone EXEs for users that don't use MS Office.


I've seen cash registers and POS terminals getting booted and saw
Windows coming up. However, this is not the full end-user version but
stripped to basic functionality aka Windows Embedded [Standard].

An OS is needed to run the POS. I've not seen commercial POSes that
provided their own boot manager, dispatcher, and all other features of
an OS. They don't want to also dev an OS to sell their POS. They don't
even tell their customers what OS is used because the customers never
supposed to be working at that level. Even enterprise-grade comm
controllers that I've worked on had their own proprietary software but
ran on some variant of UNIX or Linux, and required some special method
to get at the OS level (although that was still controlled by an
interface that restricted what could be done).

I don't know what minimal Windows functionality is needed for Excel.
Maybe Windows Embedded [Standard, Pro, Enterprise] is needed. Windows
Embedded Compact aka Windows CE (for consumer electronics, gaming
consoles, digital receivers, set-top boxes) and Windows Embedded
Automotive (variant of Compact for embedded systems in cars), and
Windows Embedded Handheld (portable devices, like used by delivery
companies where you sign a pad) don't seem like they'd be appropriate to
run Excel. Of course, the full edition of Windows could be installed
(but often stripped of all superfluous software for a POS, like
Calculator, Paint, Notepad, and other non-OS fluff).
  #24   Report Post  
Old August 18th 19, 09:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

GS wrote:

Excel must be purchased for personal use and/or volume licensed for
corporate use.


I've just read through the Excel EULA. See:

http://download.microsoft.com/Docume...51bcbc7423.pdf

Nowhere does it state a /single/ retail licence cannot be use for
commercial purpose. In a turnkey setup, no one would be bundling in a
Home and Student, military, NFR, or CANEX version of Excel or in use for
in a software hosting scenario and those are the only ones where
commercial use is probhited. You inferred that a business would need a
volume license to use Excel. Not according to Microsoft's EULA.


No, I did not infer that! See below...

Please indicate where you cite that Excel must be purchases as a volume
license for commercial use, and that a retail license is invalid for
commercial use.


I did not state it MUST be purchased as a volume license; - just saying volume
licenses are available (for any use for that matter). Most IT pros in large
corporations usually prefer volume licenses for whatever MSO editions they run
throughout their networks.


But since we got into talking about POS, those are single workstations
(where more than one may be used and communicate with each other), seems
a volume licensing would be throwing away money for unused licenses.
Guess that depends on the size of the store; i.e., mom-n-pop restaurant
or bar versus Walmart.
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Old August 18th 19, 10:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

Such things as cash registers and the like (POS devices) usually have
their own proprietary software pre-installed which is typically not
Windows (or even Linux). I have written POS apps that run under
Windows on PCs, some tied to accounting software either 3rd party or
included in my app. Any Excel-based versions are also available as
stand-alone EXEs for users that don't use MS Office.


I've seen cash registers and POS terminals getting booted and saw
Windows coming up. However, this is not the full end-user version but
stripped to basic functionality aka Windows Embedded [Standard].

An OS is needed to run the POS. I've not seen commercial POSes that
provided their own boot manager, dispatcher, and all other features of
an OS. They don't want to also dev an OS to sell their POS. They don't
even tell their customers what OS is used because the customers never
supposed to be working at that level. Even enterprise-grade comm
controllers that I've worked on had their own proprietary software but
ran on some variant of UNIX or Linux, and required some special method
to get at the OS level (although that was still controlled by an
interface that restricted what could be done).

I don't know what minimal Windows functionality is needed for Excel.
Maybe Windows Embedded [Standard, Pro, Enterprise] is needed. Windows
Embedded Compact aka Windows CE (for consumer electronics, gaming
consoles, digital receivers, set-top boxes) and Windows Embedded
Automotive (variant of Compact for embedded systems in cars), and
Windows Embedded Handheld (portable devices, like used by delivery
companies where you sign a pad) don't seem like they'd be appropriate to
run Excel. Of course, the full edition of Windows could be installed
(but often stripped of all superfluous software for a POS, like
Calculator, Paint, Notepad, and other non-OS fluff).


Well.., if we're talking about running an Excel-based app then it would need to
be full fledge Windows because NONE of the derivitive OSes support macros,
including the online stuff. That, to me, concludes that anything running the
scaled-down version of Windows as an OS is most likely offering the Excel
Viewer app!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion


  #26   Report Post  
Old August 18th 19, 10:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,alt.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,058
Default VERY irritating "save changes" message

GS wrote:

GS wrote:

Excel must be purchased for personal use and/or volume licensed for
corporate use.

I've just read through the Excel EULA. See:

http://download.microsoft.com/Docume...51bcbc7423.pdf

Nowhere does it state a /single/ retail licence cannot be use for
commercial purpose. In a turnkey setup, no one would be bundling in a
Home and Student, military, NFR, or CANEX version of Excel or in use for
in a software hosting scenario and those are the only ones where
commercial use is probhited. You inferred that a business would need a
volume license to use Excel. Not according to Microsoft's EULA.


No, I did not infer that! See below...

Please indicate where you cite that Excel must be purchases as a volume
license for commercial use, and that a retail license is invalid for
commercial use.


I did not state it MUST be purchased as a volume license; - just saying
volume licenses are available (for any use for that matter). Most IT pros
in large corporations usually prefer volume licenses for whatever MSO
editions they run throughout their networks.


But since we got into talking about POS, those are single workstations
(where more than one may be used and communicate with each other), seems
a volume licensing would be throwing away money for unused licenses.
Guess that depends on the size of the store; i.e., mom-n-pop restaurant
or bar versus Walmart.


I could see a mom-n-pop restaurant using PC-based software, but most use
industry standard systems where the cash register is networked with a mainframe
along with the management PC(s). I've only ever made PC-based POS apps for
self-employed service contractors for making quotes, invoicing, or doing
detailed job costing. A simple bookkeeping module is usually included for
tracking expenses, income, taxes, P&L, customers, vendors, and bank ledger[s].

I'm a strong advocate for using Excel for everything because it's so flexible
and can dupe anything that Word or PowerPoint can do (albeit not as easily for
the latter!).

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion


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