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Old September 9th 06, 07:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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Posts: 3,572
Default WEEKDAY()

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your regional
settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

It *would* work on Bob's machine because he probably has the European short
date set-up in his regional settings.

And of course, 2008/04/21 should work *everywhere*, since it's recognized as
international.
--
Regards,

RD

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"Epinn" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Glad I still caught you this late. Thank you for enlightening me.

<<21/4/2008 is not a number here, so it errors.

If it gives me an error, then I know. The problem is it returns "7" instead
of "5" in my other example. That's very misleading and dangerous.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.

So, I understand why you prefer =WEEKDAY(--"2008-04-21").

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.

My preference will be =WEEKDAY(--"2008/4/21").

I assume "--" above is the same as "--" in SUMPRODUCT(). Please confirm.
Can't find double negating in Help.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().

Will see.

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
But the difference is that when you key 21/4/2008 into cell A1, Excel
recognises it as a date and converts it to an underlying value of 39559,
which it presents/formats as that date.

When you enter it into a function, the function treats it as its argument,
and says that it is invalid as it expects a number (the true underlying
value). 21/4/2008 is not a number here, so it errors.

If you want to enter the date into the WEEKDAY function, you have to force
it into a number, either using another function such as you did with DATE,
or coerce it directly, like

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008")

or my preferred format of

=WEEKDAY(--"2008-04-21")

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(replace somewhere in email address with gmail if mailing direct)

"Epinn" wrote in message
...
Regarding WEEKDAY(), I read that problems can occur if dates are entered as
text.

Based on this, it is understandable that =WEEKDAY(2/14/2008) returns a wrong
result (7). This is because general format is same as text.

If I enter =WEEKDAY(DATE(2008,2,14)), I get the correct result (5).

Okay, so far. What I don't understand is the following.

I click A1 and key in 2/14/2008, then in A2, I key in =WEEKDAY(A1). I also
get the correct result (5).

The way I enter 2/14/2008 to A1 is exactly the same as I enter 2/14/2008
*directly* to the formula. It amazes me that referencing A1 in WEEKDAY()
gives me the correct answer whereas keying it in as part of the formula
won't work.

Comments welcome.

Epinn




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Old September 9th 06, 07:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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Posts: 860
Default WEEKDAY()

Yeah tried that RD but I'm cocatenating the result and that
returns a value of 38969 instead of september for the cell
even though it displays as september. The Vlookup works
fine so I might just stick with that.

Thanks for postig
Martin


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Old September 9th 06, 10:54 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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Posts: 3,572
Default WEEKDAY()

Try this to concatenate:

C1 contains the text,
20 days in

SO ...

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")

--
HTH,

RD

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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"MartinW" wrote in message
...
Yeah tried that RD but I'm cocatenating the result and that
returns a value of 38969 instead of september for the cell
even though it displays as september. The Vlookup works
fine so I might just stick with that.

Thanks for postig
Martin



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Old September 9th 06, 11:32 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,594
Default WEEKDAY()

Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(replace somewhere in email address with gmail if mailing direct)


  #15   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 11:43 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 605
Default WEEKDAY()

Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments.

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your regional

settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

Good point, RD.

I'm cocatenating the result and that returns a value of 38969 instead of September.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969. Please advise.

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the above formula, instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the above formula.

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided by 2008 which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is actually 12/31/1899 which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the return_type used is 1 or omitted.


Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a cell, I get 7-Jan-00. Don't know why and not sure if we are talking about the same thing.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as the date system starts at 1/1/1900.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very interesting. Please keep the date talk going.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current month." This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks tough. If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding it. There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the syntax. (Holidays is not a function.)

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message ...
Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(replace somewhere in email address with gmail if mailing direct)





  #16   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 11:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 427
Default WEEKDAY()

=weekday(d/m/y) or (m/d/y or whatever)
it treats it like a number on mine exactly the same results
as if I type =d/m/y ... in a cell and have =weekday(cell)

They all act as (a/b)/c for me
Now if they were in ""'s that might be different

Steve


On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:43:01 +0100, Epinn
wrote:

Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments..

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your
regional

settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

Good point, RD.

I'm cocatenating the result and that returns a value of 38969 instead
of September.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969.
Please advise.

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the
above formula, instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the
above formula.

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided
by 2008 which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is
actually 12/31/1899 which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the
return_type used is 1 or omitted.


Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a
cell, I get 7-Jan-00. Don't know why and not sure if we are talking
about the same thing.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as
the date system starts at 1/1/1900.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very
interesting. Please keep the date talk going.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current
month." This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks
tough. If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding
it. There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the
syntax. (Holidays is not a function.)

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing
into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is
to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the
OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I
don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.

  #17   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 12:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 605
Default WEEKDAY()

Steve,

I heard you. But we were discussing WEEKDAY() *with coercing* i.e. including double negating in the formulae. Do I say it right, Bob? Try to include double negating in both of your formulae and see if you get an error for either one. Like Bob and RD said, the error depends on your date default system for your region.

Epinn

"SteveW" wrote in message news[email protected]
=weekday(d/m/y) or (m/d/y or whatever)
it treats it like a number on mine exactly the same results
as if I type =d/m/y ... in a cell and have =weekday(cell)

They all act as (a/b)/c for me
Now if they were in ""'s that might be different

Steve


On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:43:01 +0100, Epinn
wrote:

Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments.

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your
regional

settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

Good point, RD.

I'm cocatenating the result and that returns a value of 38969 instead
of September.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969.
Please advise.

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the
above formula, instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the
above formula.

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided
by 2008 which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is
actually 12/31/1899 which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the
return_type used is 1 or omitted.


Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a
cell, I get 7-Jan-00. Don't know why and not sure if we are talking
about the same thing.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as
the date system starts at 1/1/1900.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very
interesting. Please keep the date talk going.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current
month." This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks
tough. If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding
it. There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the
syntax. (Holidays is not a function.)

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing
into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is
to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the
OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I
don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.


  #18   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 12:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,594
Default WEEKDAY()


"Epinn" wrote in message
...
Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments.

If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969.

Please advise.

=A1 and format as General. As we said the underlying value of a date is just
the number of days since 1st Jan 1900, so it is already that number. You
just format it to see it.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the

above formula,
instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the above formula.


Correct

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided

by 2008
which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is actually

12/31/1899
which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the return_type used is 1 or

omitted.

Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a cell,

I get 7-Jan-00.
Don't know why and not sure if we are talking about the same thing.


You may not want to, but Biff is right. 1st Jan 1900 was a Sunday, the 31st
Dec 1899 was a saturday, which is day 7 to WEEKDAY. You get 7-Jan-00 because
it is formatted that way, the underlying value is 7.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.


No, it yields 1. You just have it formatted as a date. A month number is not
a date, it is the ordinal value of the month within the year.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as
the date system starts at 1/1/1900.


It does, as Excel "knows" that is not a date in its view of the world, but
you can fool it

=WEEKDAY(--"1900/01/01"-1)

returns 7.

Again as Biff, this is another nuance of Excel.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very

interesting.
Please keep the date talk going.


It would be nice if Norman Harker joined the discussion. He has made the
study of dates a speciality.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current

month."
This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks tough.
If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding it.
There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the syntax.

(Holidays is not a function.)

How about

=WORKDAY(DATE(YEAR(TODAY()),MONTH(TODAY())+1,0),-1)

or without the ATP function

=DATE(YEAR(A1),MONTH(A1)+1,0)-(MAX(0,WEEKDAY(DATE(YEAR(A1),MONTH(A1)+1,0),2)
-5))

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...


  #19   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 12:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
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First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 605
Default WEEKDAY()

Yes, without quotes nor double negating, I don't get an error either for both formats.

Epinn

"SteveW" wrote in message news[email protected]
=weekday(d/m/y) or (m/d/y or whatever)
it treats it like a number on mine exactly the same results
as if I type =d/m/y ... in a cell and have =weekday(cell)

They all act as (a/b)/c for me
Now if they were in ""'s that might be different

Steve


On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:43:01 +0100, Epinn
wrote:

Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments.

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your
regional

settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

Good point, RD.

I'm cocatenating the result and that returns a value of 38969 instead
of September.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969.
Please advise.

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the
above formula, instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the
above formula.

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided
by 2008 which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is
actually 12/31/1899 which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the
return_type used is 1 or omitted.


Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a
cell, I get 7-Jan-00. Don't know why and not sure if we are talking
about the same thing.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as
the date system starts at 1/1/1900.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very
interesting. Please keep the date talk going.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current
month." This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks
tough. If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding
it. There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the
syntax. (Holidays is not a function.)

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing
into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is
to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the
OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I
don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.


  #20   Report Post  
Old September 9th 06, 01:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.excel.newusers
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ExcelBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 427
Default WEEKDAY()

that -- bit was so far down I'd forgotten

Steve



On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:02:57 +0100, Epinn
wrote:

Steve,

I heard you. But we were discussing WEEKDAY() *with coercing* i.e.
including double negating in the formulae. Do I say it right, Bob?
Try to include double negating in both of your formulae and see if you
get an error for either one. Like Bob and RD said, the error depends on
your date default system for your region.

Epinn

"SteveW" wrote in message
news[email protected]
=weekday(d/m/y) or (m/d/y or whatever)
it treats it like a number on mine exactly the same results
as if I type =d/m/y ... in a cell and have =weekday(cell)

They all act as (a/b)/c for me
Now if they were in ""'s that might be different

Steve


On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 11:43:01 +0100, Epinn
wrote:

Thank you all. This has been very educational. I have a few comments.

Probably the reason 21/4/2008 doesn't work for you is because your
regional

settings aren't set-up as d/m/y, BUT as m/d/y.

Good point, RD.

I'm cocatenating the result and that returns a value of 38969 instead
of September.


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, what formula do I use in A2 to get 38969.
Please advise.

=C1&" "&TEXT(A2,"mmmm")


If I key 9/9/2006 into A1, I think I can reference A1 directly in the
above formula, instead of entering =A1 in A2 and then using A2 in the
above formula.

The argument: 2/14/2008 is the equivalent of: 2 divided by 14 divided
by 2008 which equals: 0.0000711439954467843........Weekday( 0 ) is
actually 12/31/1899 which is a Saturday or weekday 7 when the
return_type used is 1 or omitted.


Don't think I want to agree with this. I key in =WEEKDAY(0) into a
cell, I get 7-Jan-00. Don't know why and not sure if we are talking
about the same thing.

=MONTH(0) yields 1-Jan-1900. In both cases, we never got back to 1899.

=WEEKDAY(--"1899/12/31") gives an error #VALUE! which makes sense as
the date system starts at 1/1/1900.

Talking about 1899 makes me feel very old but all this is very
interesting. Please keep the date talk going.

Next I have to analyze the formula for "last workday of the current
month." This formual is three-line long and uses EOMONTH(). Looks
tough. If it gets too confusing, I'll just use it without understanding
it. There is a shorter formula but uses "holidays" as part of the
syntax. (Holidays is not a function.)

Epinn

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Hi Epinn,

The "--" is exactly the same as its usage in SUMPRODUCT, it is coercing
into
a numeric.

=WEEKDAY(--"21/4/2008") gives #VALUE!
=WEEKDAYS(--"4/21/2008") gives 2.


As RD says the second version of that works for you, but fails for me is
because we have different date settings, yours are American, mine are
European.

But I prefer "/" to "-" and I tested it. I am glad that "/" works
too.


The purpose of using the date in the format yyyy-mm-dd or yyyy/mm/dd is
to
remove ambiguity (10/09/2006 is 9th Oct to you, it's 10th Sep to me). I
prefer the use of the "-" separator because that is part of the ISO
standard.

I find date functions may be as confusing as SUMPRODUCT().


No, you are just trying to understand properly so that you can use more
effectively. Nothing wrong with that. I answered a post on another forum
where a guy gave totally misleading information about SUMPRODUCT as if
it
were gospel. It didn't affect the solution, which worked, but should the
OP
have tried to take it further, he would really have gotten confused. I
don't
see that happening to you.

And if you think dates are confusing, just pity us developers who work
in
both markets, catering for all forms can be really challenging.




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