Permutations
 

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45 numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of 5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6 numbers
in numerical order.

If the only thing that matters is the identity of the 6 numbers, and the order
in which they were selected is not important, the function you want is
COMBINATIONS, not PERMUTATIONS. The function name is COMBIN.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45 numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of 5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6 numbers
in numerical order.

Thanks Myrna

"Myrna Larson" wrote:

If the only thing that matters is the identity of the 6 numbers, and the order
in which they were selected is not important, the function you want is
COMBINATIONS, not PERMUTATIONS. The function name is COMBIN.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45 numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of 5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6 numbers
in numerical order.

Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

"RedChequer" wrote:

Thanks Myrna

"Myrna Larson" wrote:

If the only thing that matters is the identity of the 6 numbers, and the order
in which they were selected is not important, the function you want is
COMBINATIONS, not PERMUTATIONS. The function name is COMBIN.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45 numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of 5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6 numbers
in numerical order.

From http://mathworld.wolfram.com/search/



Searched for "permutation". Results 1 - 10 of about 233.

Permutation -- From MathWorld
A permutation, also called an "arrangement number" or "order," is a
rearrangement of the elements of an ordered list S into a one-to-one
correspondence with S itself. The number of permutations on a set of n
elements is given by n! (n factorial; Uspensky 1937, p. 18). For example,
there are 2!==2.1==2 pe

Searched for "combination". Results 1 - 10 of about 105.


Combination -- From MathWorld
The number of ways of picking k unordered outcomes from n possibilities.
Also known as the binomial coefficient or choice number and read "n choose
k," _nC_k=(n; k)=(n!)/(k!(n-k)!), where n! is a factorial (Uspensky 1937, p.
18). For example, there are (4; 2)==6 combinations of two elements out of
the se
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Combination.html - 21k - 2005-03-16


Note the reference to ORDER and UNORDERED

--
Bernard V Liengme
www.stfx.ca/people/bliengme
remove caps from email

"RedChequer" wrote in message
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

"RedChequer" wrote:

Thanks Myrna

"Myrna Larson" wrote:

If the only thing that matters is the identity of the 6 numbers, and
the order
in which they were selected is not important, the function you want is
COMBINATIONS, not PERMUTATIONS. The function name is COMBIN.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45
numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of
5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6
numbers
in numerical order.

Hi

In permutations the order is important. Say we have three runners AB and C.
If they finish in order CAB then it's a different result from BCA. With
three different runners there are 1*2*3 possible outcomes = 6 permutations.

Combinations don't care about order. A "straight" poker hand 4-5-6-7-8 is
the same as the hand 6-7-8-4-5. Same combination, different permutation.

HTH. Best wishes Harald

"RedChequer" skrev i melding
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

Harald.
If 3x2x1 = 6, would I be correct in assuming that 45x44x43x42 etc...divided
by 6x5x4x3x2x1 give a result of 6 numbers in numerical order such as, from
45 numbers pick 6 numbers ie. 14,16,25,30,40,45

"Harald Staff" wrote:

Hi

In permutations the order is important. Say we have three runners AB and C.
If they finish in order CAB then it's a different result from BCA. With
three different runners there are 1*2*3 possible outcomes = 6 permutations.

Combinations don't care about order. A "straight" poker hand 4-5-6-7-8 is
the same as the hand 6-7-8-4-5. Same combination, different permutation.

HTH. Best wishes Harald

"RedChequer" skrev i melding
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

The general formula for number of permutations, where n is the number of items
in the population (45 in your case), r is the number of items in a set (6 in
your case), and the exclamation point means "factorial" is

num permutations = n! / (n - r)!

The number of combinations is the number of permutations divided by r!, i.e.

num combinations = n! / [(n - r!) * r!]


On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:09:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Harald.
If 3x2x1 = 6, would I be correct in assuming that 45x44x43x42 etc...divided
by 6x5x4x3x2x1 give a result of 6 numbers in numerical order such as, from
45 numbers pick 6 numbers ie. 14,16,25,30,40,45

"Harald Staff" wrote:

Hi

In permutations the order is important. Say we have three runners AB and C.
If they finish in order CAB then it's a different result from BCA. With
three different runners there are 1*2*3 possible outcomes = 6 permutations.

Combinations don't care about order. A "straight" poker hand 4-5-6-7-8 is
the same as the hand 6-7-8-4-5. Same combination, different permutation.

HTH. Best wishes Harald

"RedChequer" skrev i melding
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

Thanks Bernard

"Bernard Liengme" wrote:

From http://mathworld.wolfram.com/search/



Searched for "permutation". Results 1 - 10 of about 233.

Permutation -- From MathWorld
A permutation, also called an "arrangement number" or "order," is a
rearrangement of the elements of an ordered list S into a one-to-one
correspondence with S itself. The number of permutations on a set of n
elements is given by n! (n factorial; Uspensky 1937, p. 18). For example,
there are 2!==2.1==2 pe

Searched for "combination". Results 1 - 10 of about 105.


Combination -- From MathWorld
The number of ways of picking k unordered outcomes from n possibilities.
Also known as the binomial coefficient or choice number and read "n choose
k," _nC_k=(n; k)=(n!)/(k!(n-k)!), where n! is a factorial (Uspensky 1937, p.
18). For example, there are (4; 2)==6 combinations of two elements out of
the se
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Combination.html - 21k - 2005-03-16


Note the reference to ORDER and UNORDERED

--
Bernard V Liengme
www.stfx.ca/people/bliengme
remove caps from email

"RedChequer" wrote in message
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations

"RedChequer" wrote:

Thanks Myrna

"Myrna Larson" wrote:

If the only thing that matters is the identity of the 6 numbers, and
the order
in which they were selected is not important, the function you want is
COMBINATIONS, not PERMUTATIONS. The function name is COMBIN.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Can any one give me the formula for doing permutations
ie. odds against picking 6 numbers, not in numerical order, from 45
numbers.
Excel's PERMUT function for =Permut(45.6) returns odds of
5,864,443,200
This seems too excessive, it's more like the odds of picking the 6
numbers
in numerical order.

Thanks Myrna

"Myrna Larson" wrote:

The general formula for number of permutations, where n is the number of items
in the population (45 in your case), r is the number of items in a set (6 in
your case), and the exclamation point means "factorial" is

num permutations = n! / (n - r)!

The number of combinations is the number of permutations divided by r!, i.e.

num combinations = n! / [(n - r!) * r!]


On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:09:01 -0700, "RedChequer"
wrote:

Harald.
If 3x2x1 = 6, would I be correct in assuming that 45x44x43x42 etc...divided
by 6x5x4x3x2x1 give a result of 6 numbers in numerical order such as, from
45 numbers pick 6 numbers ie. 14,16,25,30,40,45

"Harald Staff" wrote:

Hi

In permutations the order is important. Say we have three runners AB and C.
If they finish in order CAB then it's a different result from BCA. With
three different runners there are 1*2*3 possible outcomes = 6 permutations.

Combinations don't care about order. A "straight" poker hand 4-5-6-7-8 is
the same as the hand 6-7-8-4-5. Same combination, different permutation.

HTH. Best wishes Harald

"RedChequer" skrev i melding
...
Myrna,
I already posed a than yo reply bu I meant to ask, Wht is the difference
between Permutations & Combinations