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-   -   Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard (https://www.excelbanter.com/excel-programming/454546-getting-variables-contents-onto-clipboard.html)

Terry Pinnell[_4_] January 12th 20 04:34 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
I'd much appreciate one of the experts taking a look at the question I posted here
please. As you see the only solution I've had so far seems astonishingly complex.
And, unless it's down to my using it wrongly, it seems rather inflexible too.

https://www.excelforum.com/excel-pro...ml#post5258866

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

GS[_6_] January 12th 20 06:57 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
Terry,
Here's what I've been using since day1 programming; - it's a great tutorial
IMO!

Working With The Windows Clipboard


This page describes various methods in Visual Basic For Applications (VBA) for
copying data to and retrieving data from the Windows clipboard. In VBA, you are
restricted to setting and retrieving only text data.

To copy data directly from a worksheet cell to the Windows clipboard, you can
use the COPY method of the Range object, e.g., Range("A1").Copy. However,
copying other data to the clipboard, such as variable, cell comments, sheet
names, etc, is not as simple as it might be.

VBA does not give you generic PutOnClipboard or GetOffClipboard procedures, so
we'll create them here. Along the way, we'll look at how VBA does interact with
the Windows clipboard.

Because these procedures use the DataObject variable type, you must have a
reference set in your VBA project to the Microsoft Forms 2.0 object library
(FM20.DLL).


[Copying To The Clipboard]

To access the Windows Clipboard from VBA, you must go through an intermediate
object of the DataObject type. If your VBA procedure will be working with the
clipboard, declare a NEW DataObject object with the following statement.

Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject

The SetText method of the DataObject variable is used to store a text string
or numeric value in the variable For example:

MyDataObj.SetText "This Is A Text String" Or
MyDataObj.SetText 123.456

This sets the contents of MyDataObj to a value. To copy the contents of the
variable MyDataObj to the Windows clipboard, use the PutInClipboard method .

MyDataObj.PutInClipboard


[Pasting From The Clipboard]

To retrieve the contents of the clipboard, use the following statement:

MyDataObj.GetFromClipboard

This sets the contents of MyDataObj to the contents of the Windows clipboard.

The counterpart to the SetText method is the GetText method. This method
returns the contents of DataObject to another variable. For example,

Dim MyVar As Variant
MyVar = MyDataObj.GetText


Using this knowledge, we can create the following VBA procedures:

Public Sub PutOnClipboard(Obj As Variant)
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.SetText Format(Obj)
MyDataObj.PutInClipboard
End Sub


Public Function GetOffClipboard() As Variant
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.GetFromClipboard
GetOffClipboard = MyDataObj.GetText()
End Function


Public Sub ClearClipboard()
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.SetText ""
MyDataObj.PutInClipboard
End Sub

I use these formulas quite often to place the formula of the active cell on to
the clipboard, to allow cut and paste operations without Excel changing any
cell references. You may find it useful to link them to command items on your
right click menu.

Sub CopyFormula()
Dim x As New DataObject
x.SetText ActiveCell.Formula
x.PutInClipboard
End Sub

Sub PasteFormula()
On Error Resume Next
Dim x As New DataObject
x.GetFromClipboard
ActiveCell.Formula = x.GetText
End Sub

Clearing The Clipboard

To completely clear the clipboard, you need to use a few API calls:

Declare Function CloseClipboard Lib "user32" () As Long
Declare Function EmptyClipboard Lib "user32" () As Long
Declare Function OpenClipboard Lib "user32" (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long

Sub ClearClipboard()
OpenClipboard 0&
EmptyClipboard
CloseClipboard
End Sub

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Terry Pinnell[_4_] January 13th 20 12:41 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
Hi Garry,

Thanks, but isn't that the method I described in the post I referenced from the
Excel Forum? As I said there, that fails in Windows 10, delivering nothing when
pasted externally. Because of that 'bug' or whatever it is, also referenced in that
thread.

Are you using Win 7 or earlier, under which that method *does* work?

Meanwhile as you see I do have the absurdly complex 'Win 8 and later' method
working!

Best wishes,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

====================

GS wrote:

Terry,
Here's what I've been using since day1 programming; - it's a great tutorial
IMO!

Working With The Windows Clipboard


This page describes various methods in Visual Basic For Applications (VBA) for
copying data to and retrieving data from the Windows clipboard. In VBA, you are
restricted to setting and retrieving only text data.

To copy data directly from a worksheet cell to the Windows clipboard, you can
use the COPY method of the Range object, e.g., Range("A1").Copy. However,
copying other data to the clipboard, such as variable, cell comments, sheet
names, etc, is not as simple as it might be.

VBA does not give you generic PutOnClipboard or GetOffClipboard procedures, so
we'll create them here. Along the way, we'll look at how VBA does interact with
the Windows clipboard.

Because these procedures use the DataObject variable type, you must have a
reference set in your VBA project to the Microsoft Forms 2.0 object library
(FM20.DLL).


[Copying To The Clipboard]

To access the Windows Clipboard from VBA, you must go through an intermediate
object of the DataObject type. If your VBA procedure will be working with the
clipboard, declare a NEW DataObject object with the following statement.

Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject

The SetText method of the DataObject variable is used to store a text string
or numeric value in the variable For example:

MyDataObj.SetText "This Is A Text String" Or
MyDataObj.SetText 123.456

This sets the contents of MyDataObj to a value. To copy the contents of the
variable MyDataObj to the Windows clipboard, use the PutInClipboard method .

MyDataObj.PutInClipboard


[Pasting From The Clipboard]

To retrieve the contents of the clipboard, use the following statement:

MyDataObj.GetFromClipboard

This sets the contents of MyDataObj to the contents of the Windows clipboard.

The counterpart to the SetText method is the GetText method. This method
returns the contents of DataObject to another variable. For example,

Dim MyVar As Variant
MyVar = MyDataObj.GetText


Using this knowledge, we can create the following VBA procedures:

Public Sub PutOnClipboard(Obj As Variant)
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.SetText Format(Obj)
MyDataObj.PutInClipboard
End Sub


Public Function GetOffClipboard() As Variant
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.GetFromClipboard
GetOffClipboard = MyDataObj.GetText()
End Function


Public Sub ClearClipboard()
Dim MyDataObj As New DataObject
MyDataObj.SetText ""
MyDataObj.PutInClipboard
End Sub

I use these formulas quite often to place the formula of the active cell on to
the clipboard, to allow cut and paste operations without Excel changing any
cell references. You may find it useful to link them to command items on your
right click menu.

Sub CopyFormula()
Dim x As New DataObject
x.SetText ActiveCell.Formula
x.PutInClipboard
End Sub

Sub PasteFormula()
On Error Resume Next
Dim x As New DataObject
x.GetFromClipboard
ActiveCell.Formula = x.GetText
End Sub

Clearing The Clipboard

To completely clear the clipboard, you need to use a few API calls:

Declare Function CloseClipboard Lib "user32" () As Long
Declare Function EmptyClipboard Lib "user32" () As Long
Declare Function OpenClipboard Lib "user32" (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long

Sub ClearClipboard()
OpenClipboard 0&
EmptyClipboard
CloseClipboard
End Sub


Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 01:02 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
Hi Garry,

Thanks, but isn't that the method I described in the post I referenced
from the
Excel Forum? As I said there, that fails in Windows 10, delivering nothing
when
pasted externally. Because of that 'bug' or whatever it is, also
referenced in that
thread.

Are you using Win 7 or earlier, under which that method *does* work?

Meanwhile as you see I do have the absurdly complex 'Win 8 and later'
method
working!

Best wishes,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Without registering and logging into the site you cited it's not possible to
see any code, yours or suggested solutions, to understand anything about
what you're doing other than you've got some sort of problem with clipboard
text.

As it happens there is a relatively recent bug (from memory surfaced about 3
years ago) that affects the DataObject method with X64. Various solutions
have been suggested which appear to work for some, though probably best to
use the clipboard APIs.

Peter T



Terry Pinnell[_4_] January 13th 20 03:04 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Peter T" wrote:

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
Hi Garry,

Thanks, but isn't that the method I described in the post I referenced
from the
Excel Forum? As I said there, that fails in Windows 10, delivering nothing
when
pasted externally. Because of that 'bug' or whatever it is, also
referenced in that
thread.

Are you using Win 7 or earlier, under which that method *does* work?

Meanwhile as you see I do have the absurdly complex 'Win 8 and later'
method
working!

Best wishes,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Without registering and logging into the site you cited it's not possible to
see any code, yours or suggested solutions, to understand anything about
what you're doing other than you've got some sort of problem with clipboard
text.

As it happens there is a relatively recent bug (from memory surfaced about 3
years ago) that affects the DataObject method with X64. Various solutions
have been suggested which appear to work for some, though probably best to
use the clipboard APIs.

Peter T


Are you quite sure you couldn't read messages? I can do so without logging in. I
only need that to contribute or reply. I wouldn't have included a link that wasn't
accessible!

I just sent the link to my wife on her PC in the next room and confirmed that.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 03:29 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
...
"Peter T" wrote:

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
Hi Garry,

Thanks, but isn't that the method I described in the post I referenced
from the
Excel Forum? As I said there, that fails in Windows 10, delivering
nothing
when
pasted externally. Because of that 'bug' or whatever it is, also
referenced in that
thread.

Are you using Win 7 or earlier, under which that method *does* work?

Meanwhile as you see I do have the absurdly complex 'Win 8 and later'
method
working!

Best wishes,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Without registering and logging into the site you cited it's not possible
to
see any code, yours or suggested solutions, to understand anything about
what you're doing other than you've got some sort of problem with
clipboard
text.

As it happens there is a relatively recent bug (from memory surfaced about
3
years ago) that affects the DataObject method with X64. Various solutions
have been suggested which appear to work for some, though probably best to
use the clipboard APIs.

Peter T


Are you quite sure you couldn't read messages? I can do so without logging
in. I
only need that to contribute or reply. I wouldn't have included a link
that wasn't
accessible!

I just sent the link to my wife on her PC in the next room and confirmed
that.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


The link is accessible and in your OP you said "Hopefully my code extract
clearly explains". However all the boxes with code (incl replies) say
"Please Login or Register to view this content."

Peter T



GS[_6_] January 13th 20 03:40 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Peter T" wrote:

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
Hi Garry,

Thanks, but isn't that the method I described in the post I referenced
from the
Excel Forum? As I said there, that fails in Windows 10, delivering nothing
when
pasted externally. Because of that 'bug' or whatever it is, also
referenced in that
thread.

Are you using Win 7 or earlier, under which that method *does* work?

Meanwhile as you see I do have the absurdly complex 'Win 8 and later'
method
working!

Best wishes,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Without registering and logging into the site you cited it's not possible to
see any code, yours or suggested solutions, to understand anything about
what you're doing other than you've got some sort of problem with clipboard
text.

As it happens there is a relatively recent bug (from memory surfaced about 3
years ago) that affects the DataObject method with X64. Various solutions
have been suggested which appear to work for some, though probably best to
use the clipboard APIs.

Peter T


Are you quite sure you couldn't read messages? I can do so without logging
in. I only need that to contribute or reply. I wouldn't have included a link
that wasn't accessible!

I just sent the link to my wife on her PC in the next room and confirmed
that.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Ditto Peter's replies!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

GS[_6_] January 13th 20 03:43 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
Yes, I've been using this in XP/W7. Haven't tried it on W10 but Peter's
suggestion to use the APIs makes sense given that DataObject is broken in W10!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 04:07 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"GS" wrote in message
Yes, I've been using this in XP/W7. Haven't tried it on W10 but Peter's
suggestion to use the APIs makes sense given that DataObject is broken in
W10!


It's not particularly broken in W10 and it's fine in all my systems, incl
x64. The bug seems to affect some systems dating back to 2010x64 in W7,
further back than I recalled earlier. No excuse as I was involved in one of
the early threads about it, though as I couldn't repro it took a while to
appreciate there really was a bug.

Peter T



Jesper Kaas January 13th 20 04:50 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:04:08 +0000, Terry Pinnell
wrote:

Are you quite sure you couldn't read messages? I can do so without logging in. I
only need that to contribute or reply. I wouldn't have included a link that wasn't
accessible!

I agree with Peter that the code is not visible. The window that
should show the code just says "Please Login or Register to view this
content."
The rest of the test in the forum is visible.

Best regards
--
Jesper Kaas -

Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 05:36 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
OK, understood, I didn't notice that serious snag, sorry!

In case either of you or anyone else who end up here is interested, here
is my
attempt at pasting the entire thread.


Sorry but it would take too long to go through all that to figure what
you've tried, what's not working, and why not.

Try this basic MS example:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/off...-the-clipboard

This will need to be adapted for use with 64bit Excel, first the API
declarations at the top of the form:

#If VBA7 Then
' works with all versions of 32 or 64 bit 2010 or later
' All the following APIs are likely to be word wrapped after
' posting, should be on eleven single lines each starting Private
Private Declare PtrSafe Function OpenClipboard Lib "User32" (ByVal hWnd As
LongPtr) As Long 'Ptr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function EmptyClipboard Lib "User32" () As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function CloseClipboard Lib "User32" () As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function IsClipboardFormatAvailable Lib "User32"
(ByVal wFormat As Long) As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GetClipboardData Lib "User32" (ByVal
wFormat As Long'Ptr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function SetClipboardData Lib "User32" (ByVal
wFormat As Long'Ptr, ByVal hMem As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalAlloc Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal
wFlags As Long, ByVal dwBytes As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalLock Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal hMem
As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalUnlock Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal hMem
As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalSize Lib "kernel32" (ByVal hMem As
LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function lstrcpy Lib "kernel32.dll" Alias "lstrcpyW"
(ByVal lpString1 As Any, ByVal lpString2 As Any) As LongPtr

#Else
' for use with Excel 2007 or earlier
' the same APIs as in the MS link
#End If

The declarations in at the top of the two example routines also need to be
adaped:

Public Sub SetClipboard(sUniText As String)
#If VBA7 Then
Dim iStrPtr As LongPtr
Dim iLock As LongPtr
#Else
Dim iStrPtr As Long
Dim iLock As Long
#End If
Dim iLen As Long
' rest of the routine same as the MS link

Public Function GetClipboard() As String
#If VBA7 Then
Dim iStrPtr As LongPtr
Dim iLock As LongPtr
#Else
Dim iStrPtr As Long
Dim iLock As Long
#End If
Dim iLen As Long
Dim sUniText As String
' rest of the routine same as the MS link

If this doesn't do what you want explain why not, with any error messages as
applicable.

Peter T



Terry Pinnell[_4_] January 13th 20 06:26 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Peter T" wrote:

"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
OK, understood, I didn't notice that serious snag, sorry!

In case either of you or anyone else who end up here is interested, here
is my
attempt at pasting the entire thread.


Sorry but it would take too long to go through all that to figure what
you've tried, what's not working, and why not.

Try this basic MS example:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/off...-the-clipboard

This will need to be adapted for use with 64bit Excel, first the API
declarations at the top of the form:

#If VBA7 Then
' works with all versions of 32 or 64 bit 2010 or later
' All the following APIs are likely to be word wrapped after
' posting, should be on eleven single lines each starting Private
Private Declare PtrSafe Function OpenClipboard Lib "User32" (ByVal hWnd As
LongPtr) As Long 'Ptr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function EmptyClipboard Lib "User32" () As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function CloseClipboard Lib "User32" () As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function IsClipboardFormatAvailable Lib "User32"
(ByVal wFormat As Long) As Long
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GetClipboardData Lib "User32" (ByVal
wFormat As Long'Ptr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function SetClipboardData Lib "User32" (ByVal
wFormat As Long'Ptr, ByVal hMem As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalAlloc Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal
wFlags As Long, ByVal dwBytes As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalLock Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal hMem
As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalUnlock Lib "kernel32.dll" (ByVal hMem
As LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function GlobalSize Lib "kernel32" (ByVal hMem As
LongPtr) As LongPtr
Private Declare PtrSafe Function lstrcpy Lib "kernel32.dll" Alias "lstrcpyW"
(ByVal lpString1 As Any, ByVal lpString2 As Any) As LongPtr

#Else
' for use with Excel 2007 or earlier
' the same APIs as in the MS link
#End If

The declarations in at the top of the two example routines also need to be
adaped:

Public Sub SetClipboard(sUniText As String)
#If VBA7 Then
Dim iStrPtr As LongPtr
Dim iLock As LongPtr
#Else
Dim iStrPtr As Long
Dim iLock As Long
#End If
Dim iLen As Long
' rest of the routine same as the MS link

Public Function GetClipboard() As String
#If VBA7 Then
Dim iStrPtr As LongPtr
Dim iLock As LongPtr
#Else
Dim iStrPtr As Long
Dim iLock As Long
#End If
Dim iLen As Long
Dim sUniText As String
' rest of the routine same as the MS link

If this doesn't do what you want explain why not, with any error messages as
applicable.

Peter T


Thanks, but as mentioned in my later posts in that thread I now have it working.
With code that at a glance looks very similar to yours above.

My original question was seeking expert advice/insights/confirmation on points such
as
"...seems astonishingly complex."
"...seems rather inflexible too."
and particularly any better/simpler methods

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

GS[_6_] January 13th 20 10:25 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"GS" wrote in message
Yes, I've been using this in XP/W7. Haven't tried it on W10 but Peter's
suggestion to use the APIs makes sense given that DataObject is broken in
W10!


It's not particularly broken in W10 and it's fine in all my systems, incl
x64. The bug seems to affect some systems dating back to 2010x64 in W7,
further back than I recalled earlier. No excuse as I was involved in one of
the early threads about it, though as I couldn't repro it took a while to
appreciate there really was a bug.

Peter T


And, as we both know, it's always more reliable to work directly with APIs
given the nuances of VBA6/7 and the latter's PtrSafe requirements.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

GS[_6_] January 13th 20 10:29 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
Much better tutorial than I have, so it's "out with the old, in with the new"
for me, replacing my existing .bas!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 11:01 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
Thanks, but as mentioned in my later posts in that thread I now have it
working.
With code that at a glance looks very similar to yours above.

My original question was seeking expert advice/insights/confirmation on
points such
as
"...seems astonishingly complex."
"...seems rather inflexible too."
and particularly any better/simpler methods

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


API approaches can seem complex particularly if new to using APIs, and this
example perhaps more than most because different things are going on as part
of the whole operation. I guess your choice is just use it as offered or if
interested research how APIs work in general and these in particular.

However not sure why you describe it as inflexible. Quite the reverse, it's
far more flexible than say using the DataObject which is limited to text
only. With the APIs you can work with anything the clipboard can accept, and
retrieve information about the 'type' of data that's in the clipboard before
deciding to 'get' it. That said you would need to adapt the examples for use
with other data types.

As for any better methods - not really / simpler - indeed use the
DataObject!

Peter T



Peter T[_8_] January 13th 20 11:11 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 

"GS" wrote in message ...
"GS" wrote in message
Yes, I've been using this in XP/W7. Haven't tried it on W10 but Peter's
suggestion to use the APIs makes sense given that DataObject is broken
in W10!


It's not particularly broken in W10 and it's fine in all my systems, incl
x64. The bug seems to affect some systems dating back to 2010x64 in W7,
further back than I recalled earlier. No excuse as I was involved in one
of the early threads about it, though as I couldn't repro it took a while
to appreciate there really was a bug.

Peter T


And, as we both know, it's always more reliable to work directly with APIs
given the nuances of VBA6/7 and the latter's PtrSafe requirements.


VBA7 doesn't actualy 'require' PtrSafe APIs, merely it can compile and use
them even in 32bit. It's Win64 that requires PtrSafe APIs and LongPtr (in
effect LongLong in x64) if/as necessary. Sorry if this sounds like
semantics...;)

Peter T



GS[_6_] January 13th 20 11:34 PM

Getting a variable's contents onto the clipboard
 
"GS" wrote in message ...
"GS" wrote in message
Yes, I've been using this in XP/W7. Haven't tried it on W10 but Peter's
suggestion to use the APIs makes sense given that DataObject is broken in
W10!

It's not particularly broken in W10 and it's fine in all my systems, incl
x64. The bug seems to affect some systems dating back to 2010x64 in W7,
further back than I recalled earlier. No excuse as I was involved in one
of the early threads about it, though as I couldn't repro it took a while
to appreciate there really was a bug.

Peter T


And, as we both know, it's always more reliable to work directly with APIs
given the nuances of VBA6/7 and the latter's PtrSafe requirements.


VBA7 doesn't actualy 'require' PtrSafe APIs, merely it can compile and use
them even in 32bit. It's Win64 that requires PtrSafe APIs and LongPtr (in
effect LongLong in x64) if/as necessary. Sorry if this sounds like
semantics...;)

Peter T


I already know this but thanks for clarifying for other readers, though!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion


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