What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widgets?
 

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s) between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widgets?
 

Control toolbox controls are event driven, and can respond to a number of
events, and have more programmable properties.

Forms controls just have a single macro assigned to them which fires when
the control is clicked, and have fewer programmable properties.

Control toolbox controls are more flexible, forms controls are usually
easier for the less experienced user.

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(remove nothere from email address if mailing direct)

"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer,
20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widgets?
 

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past 20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can access that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the controls that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls. The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used them was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no code left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s) between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widgets?
 

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

You are right. Our Excel Forms developers are using Form widgets for this
very reason.

Thanks!

- Joe Geretz -

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Control toolbox controls are event driven, and can respond to a number of
events, and have more programmable properties.

Forms controls just have a single macro assigned to them which fires when
the control is clicked, and have fewer programmable properties.

Control toolbox controls are more flexible, forms controls are usually
easier for the less experienced user.

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(remove nothere from email address if mailing direct)

"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer,
20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

Has VB been around 20 years or ActiveX or OLE? And I guess Jim assumes Joe
has never used a control array and knows these controls are windowless and
probably have less capability than vb6 controls. <g

anyway, the only caution I would add is Jim himself admits he lacks
familiarity with forms controls. they certainly don't have the breadth of
properties or event choices of control toolbox activeX controls, but then
they are highly accessible and very easy to code. Handling multiple controls
with a single event is trivial. They are much more compatible with use on
the spreadsheet since they are intrinsic to Excel itself. (such as dealing
with named ranges - a definite weakness with the ActiveX controls). They
each have their own collection. My opinion would be that in many instances
they are approriate, convenient and may be superior for a specialized
situation. In other situations they are not.

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past 20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can access that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the controls that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls. The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used them was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no code left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s) between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

Fair enough. I probably have probably never given forms controls enough of a
chance. Coming from VB6, Active X just seemed to make more sense. Once I am
old and wise like you are Tom I will probably use forms controls a bit more
often. That being said I think the situations where forms controls would be
more appropriate are relatively few and far between for someone with a VB6
background. IMO the greatest impediment for most people to use the control
toolbox controls is that you have to actually write some code from scratch
(or at least copy and paste with some degree of understanding) which means
that for many users these are just not an option. For Joe (who is also old
and wise :-)...) I think he would be better of to work with the control
toolbox.

As always Tom I appreciate your sobering second thoughts on what I have
posted. A little tough on my ego but I gave up on that long ago in favour of
getting good advice... :-)
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Tom Ogilvy" wrote:

Has VB been around 20 years or ActiveX or OLE? And I guess Jim assumes Joe
has never used a control array and knows these controls are windowless and
probably have less capability than vb6 controls. <g

anyway, the only caution I would add is Jim himself admits he lacks
familiarity with forms controls. they certainly don't have the breadth of
properties or event choices of control toolbox activeX controls, but then
they are highly accessible and very easy to code. Handling multiple controls
with a single event is trivial. They are much more compatible with use on
the spreadsheet since they are intrinsic to Excel itself. (such as dealing
with named ranges - a definite weakness with the ActiveX controls). They
each have their own collection. My opinion would be that in many instances
they are approriate, convenient and may be superior for a specialized
situation. In other situations they are not.

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past 20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can access that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the controls that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls. The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used them was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no code left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s) between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

What would those be? I haven't heard or seen any evidence of a chronic
problem - particularly not in userforms. (use of the word "form" is very
ambiguous here" - dialogsheet, worksheet made to look like a paper form? I
know they are not using them on userforms unless they are using a MAC)

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

You are right. Our Excel Forms developers are using Form widgets for this
very reason.

Thanks!

- Joe Geretz -

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Control toolbox controls are event driven, and can respond to a number of
events, and have more programmable properties.

Forms controls just have a single macro assigned to them which fires when
the control is clicked, and have fewer programmable properties.

Control toolbox controls are more flexible, forms controls are usually
easier for the less experienced user.

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(remove nothere from email address if mailing direct)

"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6 developer,
20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

Hi Tom,

Has VB been around 20 years or ActiveX or OLE?

Um, before VB6 came out, we only had stuff like COBOL, but I guess you could
call that software development ;-)

And I guess Jim assumes Joe
has never used a control array and knows these controls are windowless and
probably have less capability than vb6 controls. <g

Are you saying that the Controls are windowless and the Forms widgets are
windowed (or vice versa)? This might explain why some of the Forms widgets
are not faithfully reproduced by CopyPicture unless Bitmap format is used
specifically. Controls show up nicely, even with the default Picture format.

This is the issue I'm dealing with. I'm not getting involved in Excel
development at all, other than the need to display these documents
faithfully in a read-only context. For more detail on what I'm actually
doing, you can check out my thread above titled: How to Find Used Range and
Print Area.

Thanks for your help with any and all of these issues!

- Joe Geretz -

anyway, the only caution I would add is Jim himself admits he lacks
familiarity with forms controls. they certainly don't have the breadth of
properties or event choices of control toolbox activeX controls, but then
they are highly accessible and very easy to code. Handling multiple
controls
with a single event is trivial. They are much more compatible with use on
the spreadsheet since they are intrinsic to Excel itself. (such as dealing
with named ranges - a definite weakness with the ActiveX controls). They
each have their own collection. My opinion would be that in many
instances
they are approriate, convenient and may be superior for a specialized
situation. In other situations they are not.

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by
right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the
regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past 20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for
the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if
you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can access
that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the controls
that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls. The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The
contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are
attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to
think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used them
was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no code
left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6
developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

Hi Tom,

What would those be?

I don't have specifics, but here's a snippet from the feedback I got from
our Excel Forms developer:

----------------
I tend to use this (Forms) checkbox due to the simple reason that:

1. If client has an older version of Excel, sometimes the control toolbars
checkboxes do not work correctly.
....
----------------

But I don't have any specifics for you. If they're working well for you,
then go with it!

- Joseph Geretz

"Tom Ogilvy" wrote in message
...
What would those be? I haven't heard or seen any evidence of a chronic
problem - particularly not in userforms. (use of the word "form" is very
ambiguous here" - dialogsheet, worksheet made to look like a paper form?
I
know they are not using them on userforms unless they are using a MAC)

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in
excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

You are right. Our Excel Forms developers are using Form widgets for this
very reason.

Thanks!

- Joe Geretz -

"Bob Phillips" wrote in message
...
Control toolbox controls are event driven, and can respond to a number
of
events, and have more programmable properties.

Forms controls just have a single macro assigned to them which fires
when
the control is clicked, and have fewer programmable properties.

Control toolbox controls are more flexible, forms controls are usually
easier for the less experienced user.

I believe, but not absolutely sure, that control toolbox controls in
excel
2003 have serious problems, but it is a while since I have used 2003.

--
HTH

Bob Phillips

(remove nothere from email address if mailing direct)

"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6
developer,
20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

I said control toolbox controls are windowless.

I said forms are totally internal to excel. They are drawn and managed by
excel - same as the drawing objects. I have no knowledge of how they are
managed internally by Excel or if they have a window or not. Haven't really
ever had a need to know and can't imagine why you would if you are just
taking a picture.

--
Regards
Tom Ogilvy


"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi Tom,

Has VB been around 20 years or ActiveX or OLE?

Um, before VB6 came out, we only had stuff like COBOL, but I guess you
could
call that software development ;-)

And I guess Jim assumes Joe
has never used a control array and knows these controls are windowless
and
probably have less capability than vb6 controls. <g

Are you saying that the Controls are windowless and the Forms widgets are
windowed (or vice versa)? This might explain why some of the Forms widgets
are not faithfully reproduced by CopyPicture unless Bitmap format is used
specifically. Controls show up nicely, even with the default Picture
format.

This is the issue I'm dealing with. I'm not getting involved in Excel
development at all, other than the need to display these documents
faithfully in a read-only context. For more detail on what I'm actually
doing, you can check out my thread above titled: How to Find Used Range
and
Print Area.

Thanks for your help with any and all of these issues!

- Joe Geretz -

anyway, the only caution I would add is Jim himself admits he lacks
familiarity with forms controls. they certainly don't have the breadth
of
properties or event choices of control toolbox activeX controls, but
then
they are highly accessible and very easy to code. Handling multiple
controls
with a single event is trivial. They are much more compatible with use
on
the spreadsheet since they are intrinsic to Excel itself. (such as
dealing
with named ranges - a definite weakness with the ActiveX controls).
They
each have their own collection. My opinion would be that in many
instances
they are approriate, convenient and may be superior for a specialized
situation. In other situations they are not.

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by
right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the
regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past
20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for
the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if
you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can access
that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the
controls
that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls. The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The
contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are
attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to
think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used them
was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no
code
left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6
developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -

What's the difference between Control Toolbox and Forms widget
 

Hi Tom,

managed internally by Excel or if they have a window or not. Haven't
really
ever had a need to know and can't imagine why you would if you are just
taking a picture.

Because, we've noticed that the picture doesn't always come out correctly.
Certain Form widgets don't show up properly in the resulting snapshot if you
use xlPicture as opposed to xlBitmap. Basically there are three combinations
you can use

xlScreen : xlPicture
xlScreen : xlBitmap
xlPrinter

xlScreen : xlBitmap produces the most faithful snapshot, but it is also the
most resource intensive. Which is why I'm looking to cut down on the area of
the sheet which I actually include in my snapshot. Thanks for your help in
the other thread. Grabbing the defined Print Range, rather than the
horrendous UsedRange has sped this operation up from about 5 seconds to half
a second, enought to make this approach viable for us.

Thanks!

- Joe Geretz -

"Tom Ogilvy" wrote in message
...
I said control toolbox controls are windowless.

I said forms are totally internal to excel. They are drawn and managed by
excel - same as the drawing objects. I have no knowledge of how they are
managed internally by Excel or if they have a window or not. Haven't
really
ever had a need to know and can't imagine why you would if you are just
taking a picture.

--
Regards
Tom Ogilvy


"Joseph Geretz" wrote in message
...
Hi Tom,

Has VB been around 20 years or ActiveX or OLE?

Um, before VB6 came out, we only had stuff like COBOL, but I guess you
could
call that software development ;-)

And I guess Jim assumes Joe
has never used a control array and knows these controls are windowless
and
probably have less capability than vb6 controls. <g

Are you saying that the Controls are windowless and the Forms widgets are
windowed (or vice versa)? This might explain why some of the Forms
widgets
are not faithfully reproduced by CopyPicture unless Bitmap format is used
specifically. Controls show up nicely, even with the default Picture
format.

This is the issue I'm dealing with. I'm not getting involved in Excel
development at all, other than the need to display these documents
faithfully in a read-only context. For more detail on what I'm actually
doing, you can check out my thread above titled: How to Find Used Range
and
Print Area.

Thanks for your help with any and all of these issues!

- Joe Geretz -

anyway, the only caution I would add is Jim himself admits he lacks
familiarity with forms controls. they certainly don't have the breadth
of
properties or event choices of control toolbox activeX controls, but
then
they are highly accessible and very easy to code. Handling multiple
controls
with a single event is trivial. They are much more compatible with use
on
the spreadsheet since they are intrinsic to Excel itself. (such as
dealing
with named ranges - a definite weakness with the ActiveX controls).
They
each have their own collection. My opinion would be that in many
instances
they are approriate, convenient and may be superior for a specialized
situation. In other situations they are not.

--
Regards,
Tom Ogilvy


"Jim Thomlinson" wrote:

If you are a VB6 developer then you will be much more familiar with
the
control toolbox controls. They have properties that can be accessed by
right
clicking the control and selecting properties along with all of the
regular
events. You can also code against them just like you have for the past
20
years. The controls are embeded directly in the sheet and the code for
the
controls ends up in the sheet (very similar to a form). For example if
you
place a command button in sheet1 (code name sheet1) then you can
access
that
button with Sheet1.CommandButton1.Enabled = true. These are the
controls
that
I always use.

Controls from the forms toolbar are more like pictures of controls.
The
formatting of the controls is handled through the Format menu. The
contols
are much more difficult to access through code. These controls are
attached
to code that is placed in a standard code module. I am hard pressed to
think
of an advantage to using these controls. The only time I have used
them
was
when I wanted to copy a sheet out of a workbook to a new workbbok for
distribution. By using a contol from the forms toolbar there was no
code
left
in the sheet when I deleted the controls.
--
HTH...

Jim Thomlinson


"Joseph Geretz" wrote:

Hi,

Can you give this layman a brief rundown on the basic difference(s)
between
these two types of widgets?

(I say 'layman' because I'm not an Excel developer. I am a VB6
developer, 20
years in software development, so if you want to throw some
technical
details at me, I should be able to handle them. ;-)

Thanks!

- Joseph Geretz -