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  #41   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Slam dunk.

(I'm sorry to hear that you were drawn into that mess.)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Peter Foldes" wrote in message
...
Not a fairy tale at all and that teenager lives directly across the street
from me here in Montreal (Ile Bizard). I was also quizzed by the authorities
since my son is friends with him and he came over often and I was working
with computers for a living. I had my systems at the time removed by the
RCMP\FBI\Local Police and was retuned to me after 3 weeks. Was very
embarrassing to all.

Like I said you never know who is who and what is what.

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
Nice fairy tale.

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on Yahoo,
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments etc.".

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any
long-term restriction on computer use.

His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking out a
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with
anything?

Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly
didn't set much of a precedent.

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit
be served?


In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft
server
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the time.

There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the
Content
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now he
said
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers on
how
to get around it and open it.

Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the story
that a
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how to get
rid
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.

The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.

Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for another
3
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made National
and
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.



  #42   Report Post  
Peter Foldes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The reason I was draw in is Jeff and my son usually played games on the =
computer in the basement here. So I was suspect for my computers were =
also possibly used as was his at his residence

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote in message =
...
Slam dunk.
=20
(I'm sorry to hear that you were drawn into that mess.)
=20
--=20
=20
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
=20
=20
=20
"Peter Foldes" wrote in message=20
...
Not a fairy tale at all and that teenager lives directly across the =

street=20
from me here in Montreal (Ile Bizard). I was also quizzed by the =

authorities=20
since my son is friends with him and he came over often and I was =

working=20
with computers for a living. I had my systems at the time removed by =

the=20
RCMP\FBI\Local Police and was retuned to me after 3 weeks. Was very=20
embarrassing to all.
=20
Like I said you never know who is who and what is what.
=20
--=20
Peter
=20
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
=20
"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message=20
...
Nice fairy tale.

MafiaBoy was a Canadian teenager that perpetrated a DOS attack on =

Yahoo,
Dell, eBay, Amazon.com, etc. - not "hack(ing) IBM,MS,Governments =

etc.".

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,
which would have been up 2 years ago. His sentence didn't include any
long-term restriction on computer use.

His dad, btw, was arrested the same day as MafiaBoy was for taking =

out a
contract on a business colleague. Might that have anything to do with
anything?

Given that Content Advisor password removers are still sold, and free
hacks are still posted, if your 95 anecdote is true (I couldn't find
anything via Google, though it didn't sound unfamiliar), it certainly
didn't set much of a precedent.

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the =

suit
be served?


In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Sorry to jump in here but how many of you remember the old Microsoft =


server
newsgroup MSNNEWS. This goes back to 95. It was moderated at the =

time.

There was a post there in 95 where someone posted that he set up the =


Content
Advisor so his kids will not be able to get into certain sites. Now =

he=20
said
that he forgot the Password and needed help. He had numerous answers =

on=20
how
to get around it and open it.

Well about a month later in the newspapers and TV there was the =

story=20
that a
Father is suing MS and that newsgroup for telling his child on how =

to get=20
rid
of that password . BTW he won the case and a large some of money.

The point is you do not know who is who and what is what.

Today that child that did that is not allowed near a computer for =

another=20
3
yrs. His nickname was the Mafia Boy. Yep the same one that made =

National=20
and
International headlines when he hacked IBM,MS,Governments etc.=20

=20

  #43   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

Jeff was 14 yrs old at the time.


Jeff? I thought it was Mike...

He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of probation,


That was house detention and was able to go out for only schooling. His
probation was for 4 yrs.


Then the probation was lengthened post-sentencing:

http://www.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/cybercrimes.htm

(and yup, I should have written "of" instead of "in")

How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit
be served


Microsoft Canada was sued. Microsoft Canada has since been closed and is no
longer here.


Still can't find a cite...I'd have thought a decision like that would
have been widely reported.
  #44   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I certainly respect that choice. I just get irritated with those who
censure others who make a different one. There are plenty of posts that
I don't respond to because they seem "off". But that's it - I don't tell
them they shouldn't be asking.

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding and
abetting.

  #45   Report Post  
Peter Foldes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

NO. His name was and is Jeff. His fathers name is Michael . There is a =
Publication ban on children under a certain age and his first name was =
never mentioned. His Family name was as was his Fathers and Mothers =
first names

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message =
...
In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:
=20
Jeff was 14 yrs old at the time.

=20
Jeff? I thought it was Mike...
=20
He was sentenced to 8 months in detention plus one year of =

probation,=20
=20
That was house detention and was able to go out for only schooling. =

His=20
probation was for 4 yrs.

=20
Then the probation was lengthened post-sentencing:
=20
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/cybercrimes.htm
=20
(and yup, I should have written "of" instead of "in")
=20
How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the =

suit=20
be served

=20
Microsoft Canada was sued. Microsoft Canada has since been closed and =

is no=20
longer here.

=20
Still can't find a cite...I'd have thought a decision like that would=20
have been widely reported.



  #46   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

Slam dunk.


?? The fairy tale I was referring to was that somehow giving a password
crack to a teenager turned him into MafiaBoy. Nobody disputes that what
he did was wrong, but perhaps having a criminal for a father was a
bigger, more pervasive influence.

In any case, single anecdotes are a horrible basis for making policy. I
could list dozens of anecdotes about businesses that were saved by
cracking the passwords of critical XL files that malicious employees
wouldn't divulge. That would be a lousy reason to base policy on, too.

Instead, an evaluation of legitimate needs, widely available solutions,
and a lack of any legal or contractual basis to judge that cracking
Office passwords is inherently illegal or immoral is a better standard.
  #47   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Interesting. His father's name was reported by the Washington Post and
USA Today as "John Calce".

In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:

NO. His name was and is Jeff. His fathers name is Michael . There is a
Publication ban on children under a certain age and his first name was never
mentioned. His Family name was as was his Fathers and Mothers first names

  #48   Report Post  
Peter Foldes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

His Family name is correct . But his first name is Michael. I am going =
over in a bit to ask him why it is listed as John in the Papers you =
said. I will get back to you in a bit.

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message =
...
Interesting. His father's name was reported by the Washington Post and =


USA Today as "John Calce".
=20
In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:
=20
NO. His name was and is Jeff. His fathers name is Michael . There is =

a=20
Publication ban on children under a certain age and his first name =

was never=20
mentioned. His Family name was as was his Fathers and Mothers first =

names
  #49   Report Post  
Peter Foldes
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just came from Michaels place. His wife said (he is not home)but that =
his full name is Jean(that is John in Eng.)Michael Calce. Only using =
Michael which is how we all no him. Only on paper will he use Jean(John) =
.. This I was not aware of and also here when it was in the paper and TV =
it always did say Michael. We all know as Michael and call him Mike and =
or Miki. Thanks for that bit of info. Now we can bug him and say HEY JM =
..lol
--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"Peter Foldes" wrote in message =
...
His Family name is correct . But his first name is Michael. I am going =
over in a bit to ask him why it is listed as John in the Papers you =
said. I will get back to you in a bit.

--=20
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message =
...
Interesting. His father's name was reported by the Washington Post and =


USA Today as "John Calce".
=20
In article ,
"Peter Foldes" wrote:
=20
NO. His name was and is Jeff. His fathers name is Michael . There is =

a=20
Publication ban on children under a certain age and his first name =

was never=20
mentioned. His Family name was as was his Fathers and Mothers first =

names
  #50   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What I say to my husband or think to myself about some posts is something
I'd never put down in writing. ;-)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
I certainly respect that choice. I just get irritated with those who
censure others who make a different one. There are plenty of posts that
I don't respond to because they seem "off". But that's it - I don't tell
them they shouldn't be asking.

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to
find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth
or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding
and
abetting.





  #52   Report Post  
Tushar Mehta
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions
  #53   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We can't know what's in the hearts and minds of others. We can know what
makes us feel uncomfortable. I'd much rather err on the side of caution that
to help someone violate a law, a company policy, another person's copyright,
or a friend/family member's trust.

I have to do what I think is right, as do you. I have my hands full with my
own set of personal morals and ethics without trying to impose them on
others.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Tushar Mehta" wrote in message
om...
In article ,
says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to
find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth
or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding
and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions



  #54   Report Post  
Don Guillett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Perhaps it is due to a "guilty conscience"

--
Don Guillett
SalesAid Software

"Tushar Mehta" wrote in message
om...
In article ,

says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to

find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the truth

or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding

and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions



  #55   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, not at all. It's what happens when you've matured enough to know what's
right in your heart.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Don Guillett" wrote in message
...
Perhaps it is due to a "guilty conscience"

--
Don Guillett
SalesAid Software

"Tushar Mehta" wrote in message
om...
In article ,

says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where to

find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the
truth

or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of aiding

and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions







  #56   Report Post  
KL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, some would say "maturity" is about undrestanding how little one really
knows or the meaning of "Judge not, that ye be not judged..."

Regards,
KL


"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote in message
...
No, not at all. It's what happens when you've matured enough to know
what's right in your heart.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Don Guillett" wrote in message
...
Perhaps it is due to a "guilty conscience"

--
Don Guillett
SalesAid Software

"Tushar Mehta" wrote in message
om...
In article ,

says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where
to

find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the
truth

or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of
aiding

and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions







  #57   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything. But It's taken me a
very long time to get to this level of understanding myself and knowing
better than to do things that make me uncomfortable. Because I *don't* know
the truth about the situation of a person who needs a crack (but seems to
know the term) I prefer to stay out of it.

Perhaps when you're my age, you'll appreciate that.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"KL" wrote in message
...
Well, some would say "maturity" is about undrestanding how little one
really knows or the meaning of "Judge not, that ye be not judged..."

Regards,
KL


"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote in message
...
No, not at all. It's what happens when you've matured enough to know
what's right in your heart.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Don Guillett" wrote in message
...
Perhaps it is due to a "guilty conscience"

--
Don Guillett
SalesAid Software

"Tushar Mehta" wrote in
message
om...
In article ,

says...
I just don't answer questions about how to break into files or where
to
find
bogus product IDs. There's no way to tell if the OP is telling the
truth
or
not when they say it's their file/program. If someone else chooses to
respond, that's their choice. I choose not to take the chance of
aiding
and
abetting.


That would be just fine. But, that is not what you did in this
discussion. You, and others, are (a) presuming guilt and (b) preaching
about the same.

I *do* stay away from such requests. In those instances where I
respond, it is along the lines of "search google...do ensure you are OK
with IP/copyright laws..."

What I find interesting is that if one starts with the presumption of
guilt, how does one help anyone on the 'Net? Just about *any* request
could be from a student violating her/his code of conduct and asking
for help with h/w.

Any attempt to access a file could be an attempt to hack into the file
("I need to get data from a file on the network server" or "I have to
access data in a file I cannot open").

Heck, even a request to add a watermark to a document could be an
illegal act. Maybe the document was written by someone else and this
person wants to steal it and put her/his name on it!

How does one stop the paranoia if we start with the presumption of the
guilt just because we don't know the person?

--
Regards,

Tushar Mehta
www.tushar-mehta.com
Excel, PowerPoint, and VBA add-ins, tutorials
Custom MS Office productivity solutions








  #58   Report Post  
KL
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Perhaps when you're my age, you'll appreciate that.

Well, who knows! Maybe I will... or maybe I will not have another chance to
be your age :-) How do you know mine?

Regards,
KL


  #59   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Do you remember when Telstar made the news? Satellite or song - take your
pick?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"KL" wrote in message
...
Perhaps when you're my age, you'll appreciate that.


Well, who knows! Maybe I will... or maybe I will not have another chance
to be your age :-) How do you know mine?

Regards,
KL



  #60   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I have my hands full with my own set of personal morals and ethics
without trying to impose them on others.


Yet you did so in your first post of this thread...

I'm confused.


  #61   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I never told anyone that they should or should not respond to the request
for a crack. I've only said that I am skeptical about anyone who wants one.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I have my hands full with my own set of personal morals and ethics
without trying to impose them on others.


Yet you did so in your first post of this thread...

I'm confused.



  #62   Report Post  
Lomax
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have got to ask..

Eric,
Did you open the file?

Lomax
"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
Take a look at

http://www.mcgimpsey.com/excel/fileandvbapwords.html

for a link to a less expensive solution.

In article ,
"Eric Fehlhaber" wrote:

Does anyone know of any software that can crack a password protected .xls
file for free? I found this one... http://www.elcomsoft.com/aopr.html I
don't think it's worth it for one document though.

Thanks

Eric



  #63   Report Post  
JE McGimpsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I never told anyone that they should or should not respond to the request
for a crack. I've only said that I am skeptical about anyone who wants one.


I was referring to your telling the OP

And since the file was protected in the first place, maybe you
shouldn't be trying to break into it.


It sounded to me like an attempt to impose your morals and ethics.



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I have my hands full with my own set of personal morals and ethics
without trying to impose them on others.


Yet you did so in your first post of this thread...

I'm confused.

  #64   Report Post  
JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]
 
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Nope, just making a suggestion. Imposing my morals would be "Don't do that
because ....." or "It's a sin to .....". I didn't do either - I just
suggested that maybe they shouldn't be trying to break into the file.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I never told anyone that they should or should not respond to the request
for a crack. I've only said that I am skeptical about anyone who wants
one.


I was referring to your telling the OP

And since the file was protected in the first place, maybe you
shouldn't be trying to break into it.


It sounded to me like an attempt to impose your morals and ethics.



"JE McGimpsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote:

I have my hands full with my own set of personal morals and ethics
without trying to impose them on others.

Yet you did so in your first post of this thread...

I'm confused.



  #65   Report Post  
Harlan Grove
 
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"David R. Norton MVP" wrote...
"Harlan Grove" wrote in:

....

Then your experience is either severely outdated or
unrepresentative.


No, you're just being argumentative.


No, you're stating what most people, at least in the US and with some
familiarity with computer stores in the US, would recognize as pure BS.

The average computer store employee may know something about hardware, and
they may know something about operating systems and game software, but in my
experience they know nothing about MS Office nor anything about it's
password protection.

There may be B2B services with online databases available to service techs,
but they'd be VERY EXPENSIVE.

So all an IP thief would need to do is make a copy of a file, take it
home, copy it onto his own PC, call the shop and tell them his impish
nephew Bobby was playoing around on his PC and password protected his
customer list? And that proves legal access how?


Pretty hard to discuss anything with one who won't read or comprehend,
we'll drop this one. But it's really not that difficult.


I've read enough and comprehended enough to know you have no idea what
you're talking about. You seem to be unaware that on any machine that
provides e-mail with file attachments, it's possible to fake ownership (in
the OS sense) of any file that could be received via e-mail.

So how would anyone be able to establish legal entitlement to unprotect a
file before the fact? If it can't be proven, what's the point of paying
someone to attempt this pointless task?

. . . Everyone would like to have everything free, if that's not
possible then you have to pay whatever the price might be.


Given how much free software is available, it wasn't unreasonable for the OP
to ask about free password crackers. They may not be available (though SLOW
brute force code has been posted in the past in several Excel newsgroups).

No, just to point out your very disturbing lack of morals. . . .


Where have I advocated for breaking any laws? At most I've pointed out that
certain laws are very easy to break. That's immoral or amoral?

What I've written that you've failed to understand is that there are
legitmate uses for password cracking. Claims for legitimate use for password
cracking are more frequent than not, though I'll grant that claims aren't
proof, but my own experience has led me to believe that most such requests
are legitimate. If your experience is different, you gotta get some new
friends.

I'm done with you.


We'll see.




  #66   Report Post  
Harlan Grove
 
Posts: n/a
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"JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]" wrote...
Nope, just making a suggestion. Imposing my morals would be "Don't do
that because ....." or "It's a sin to .....". I didn't do either - I
just suggested that maybe they shouldn't be trying to break into the
file.

....

This is pure rhetorical cuteness. "I didn't say 'Don't do that.', I said
'Maybe you shouldn't do that.'" So maybe they should, too?

You used oblique language to communicate the same message you're now
claiming you didn't send.

Without knowing the facts or asking questions to establish the facts (which
would be all David's hypothetical Office-aware, house-calling computer store
clerk could do), you assumed illicit intent.


  #67   Report Post  
Harlan Grove
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"JE McGimpsey" wrote...
....
How does one sue a newsgroup, anyway? Where and to whom would the suit be
served?

....

Just a guess, but the existence of moderators in presumably proprietary
newsgroups (e.g., starting with microsoft rather than comp or alt) could be
enough to make the sponsor liable. A very good reason not to moderate.


  #68   Report Post  
Amedee Van Gasse
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In , Harlan Grove told us an
interesting story. My reply to this story is at the bottom of this
message.

I'm done with you.


We'll see.


*sigh*

You are BOTH right
AND
you are BOTH wrong.

But I'm not going to *plonk* you guys for that. At least you were
polite, the both of you.


Btw: You'd have to be a pretty stupid criminal to leave your traces on
a fscking[0] Microsoft usenet server... So far nobody has mentioned
that argument!

[0] Pardon my French.

--
Amedee Van Gasse
  #69   Report Post  
Amedee Van Gasse
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In , David R. Norton MVP
told us an interesting story. My reply to this story is at the bottom
of this message.

JE McGimpsey wrote in:

In article ,
"David R. Norton MVP" wrote:

And how many computer shop employees know how to remove

passwords from Office documents?

Every one I've ever encountered.


You've asked at every computer shop? Or have you just not
encountered many?


As stated, everyone I've ever encountered.


*snip*

Hmmm...what authority is necessary? How do I know someone is "in
authority"?


Ridiculous comeback and you know it.


*snip*

You should all be ashamed of yourselves but I know you won't be...

Don't bother replying, I'm done with you.


Woohoo!!!
MVP flame war!!!!!
/ROTFLMAO/
Looks like all the good stuff happens when I'm on holiday. ;-)

--
Amedee Van Gasse
  #70   Report Post  
Amedee Van Gasse
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In .com, Harlan
Grove told us an interesting story. My reply to this story is at the
bottom of this message.

Your argument is similar to saying that because handguns are often
used to commit violent crimes, one should never tell anyone where the
nearest gun shop is located, and besides it's illegal to buy .50
machine guns!


About morality: (and off-topic)
Terminating life is moral (or at least amoral) because some weird
constitution allows the posession of deadly weapons. It's even shown on
tv as entertainment. Weapons, brought to you by the guy who played the
guy with the stone tablets that said Killing Isn't A Good Thing, Really.
Creating life (sex) otoh is considered immoral.

I'm confused, and I'm glad I'm a rightponder.

--
Amedee Van Gasse
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